IRC log started Fri Feb 13 00:33
*** Value of LOG set to ON
[8:55] oghost    [oghost@ecstasy.value.net] has joined #unix
*** Topic for #unix: READ:  This is not an online help channel.  #unixhelp is.  Thanks for reading.
*** Topic set by Dossy at Feb 12 20:18 (36 minutes 40 seconds ago)
*** Users on #Unix: oghost eric @TBaur mardou_ Tom23 ff- Hal911 Adrian @cstone @neptho n0n0 makaze coredata seaw0lf @tcsetattr @JVaughn @frostbyte haws wyrm LeVu relapse_ @indy JuliaAnne @butnik2 sambo @rw-rw-rw- sabi Butane @Rudra @emulex @foobi-wan pakrat @Cephas @raz-c @Dagashi @WankAway _nero_ teletype @terrapinn @sigint @astro rlb @geezaway @SuperTaz @kalium @shimon_ @bZ comp @Viola @gizmoduck Cyron zonked @Snooze @Dossy @Evil_Ed @madbomber @mr_tech @planetX @pbug @insanity @Traycer 
<mouse> woo hoo!
<sigint> not really
<toby> :)
<pbug> tcp ....easy as udp...all carried by the eye pee...dooh reeh mii fah solatee mooh
<sigint> people who are good coders use gnu configure/autoconf
* Adrian has never had a problem compiling his BSD code under FreBSD/NeBSD/Linsux..
<tcsetattr> how can you look at BSD Makefiles (full of non-portable garbage) and <sys/cdefs.h> which they use in _every_ program and contains a whole bunch of non-standard macros that you have to weed out
<tcsetattr> just to get STARTED on porting
<in4mer> pbug: hehe moooh
<sigint> > people who are good coders use gnu configure/autoconf
<tcsetattr> and then say bsd coders aren't damning the rest of the world?
<pbug> m000h :)
<Adrian> Hehehe.
<sigint> tc: did you catch what i said this time?
<in4mer> hehe
<tcsetattr> yeah
<rw-rw-rw-> I code fror Xenix/286, SunOS 4.1.3, FreeBSD, OpenBSD/sparc, and Digital UNIX.
<sigint> maybe i need to make that a bit louder
<sigint> oh, good
<pbug> 666: yay! :)
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<oghost> auto
<oghost> conf
<tcsetattr> once I find a good BSD /bin/sh
<oghost> is all that ever needs to be said
<cstone> xenix/286, whee
<sigint> EWWW
<tcsetattr> I'm gonna put it under autoconf
<pale> how do i get into a dir with a space?
<toby> bsd bashing, woot!
<tcsetattr> mwahaha
<sigint> Xenix2 is strange
<rw-rw-rw-> I'm running xenix/286 code now.
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[8:57] pale      Kicked off #UNIX by Cephas [ man cd]
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<tcsetattr> uh, shit
[8:57] toby      Sets mode: +o exabyte
<tcsetattr> I think I just accidentally deleted that dcc :)
<tcsetattr> why isn't ftp.cdrom.com up
<in4mer> heh
<in4mer> DAMMIT they serve ME
[8:58] SignOff: pale      [Time wasted: 3 minutes 13 seconds]
<in4mer> AND I'M A PAYING CUSTOme...  wait.
<Adrian> What I just sent you?
[8:58] SignOff: mardou_   [Leaving]
<tcsetattr> yeah
<Adrian> Do I have to DCC you again? :)
<tcsetattr> I got confused and thought it was an old one
<tcsetattr> and rm'ed it
<Adrian> There.
<Cephas> Sneakers FUCKING ROCKS
<tcsetattr> let's see if I can be smarter this time
*** neptho    is now known as air_
*** air_      is now known as need_
*** need_     is now known as air_
<rw-rw-rw-> I'm trying to run Xenix/286 binaries under Sco OpenServer 5.0.4, it's a trip.
*** air_      is now known as badly
*** badly     is now known as neptho
[8:59] SignOff: neptho    [flooding 02/12/98 (1998/02/12 22.59)]
<tcsetattr> oh
<tcsetattr> and could you do a test for me
<jennr> mew
<tcsetattr> sh -c 'for i in "foo bar";do echo $i;done' | wc -l
[8:59] neptho    [neptho@owns.greatplants.com] has joined #unix
<tcsetattr> I don't wanna port this if it's got the bug :)
<neptho> uhm
<neptho> that sucked or something
[9:00] SignOff: _nero_    [Leaving]
<jennr> neppie
<Cephas> neptho:wah happen?
<Adrian> Syntax error: Unterminated quoted string
<Adrian> Oops.
<tcsetattr> huh?
<Adrian>        1
<tcsetattr> ok
[9:01] cosmos    [cosmos@kerouac.hepcat.org] has joined #unix
<tcsetattr> good result
<Adrian> Thats the output of 2.2.5-REL's sh.
<in4mer> cosmos :+)
* tcsetattr is getting more intimate with sh source than he wanted to be
<cosmos> w00t
<Cephas> same here tcsetattr
<tcsetattr> it's starting to make sense to me
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<Adrian>  /exec -o sh -c 'for i in "foo bar"; do echo $i; done' | wc -l
<Adrian> Thats what I typed.
<rw-rw-rw-> tcs: you're in trouble.
[9:01] DrLoud    [Prelude@dbb97-172.db.uth.tmc.edu] has joined #UNIX
<rvn> could someone PLEASE, tell me how damn i add a user with "useradd" command? in ,my  solaris box?
<rvn> :)
<DrLoud> I have a mail Question
<tcsetattr> wow, the freebsd makefile actually has dependencies!
<toby> cozzy
<oghost> umm
<cosmos> rvn: suck a dick bitch
<oghost> the ';' is fucking that up
<toby> useradd user
<Adrian> man useradd ? :)
[9:02] forcer    [frt@ts009d32.det-mi.concentric.net] has joined #unix
<rvn> hehe
<rvn> i know gotta be easy.. if someone be cool and just tell this idiota..
<DrLoud> I created a new alias list and my sendmail program isn't recognizing it
<DrLoud> do i have to do some type of export
<Evil_Ed> cheers is on :)
<toby> drloud, sendmail -bi
<forcer> Hey, does anyone know how to make a linux ftp server "FXP compatible?" I know this isn't a help site, but no one else seems to know..
<cosmos> rvn: dd if=/dev/zero of=/kernel/genunix
<DrLoud> thanks
[9:03] _smeagol  [smeagol@155.48.100.252] has joined #Unix
<cstone> cheers is neat
<rvn> shudup cosmos
* toby spanks cosmos' bare ass
<rvn> i only have used linux all my life ;(
<cosmos> w0ot toby
* Evil_Ed curls up in jenn's lap
[9:03] toby      Sets mode: +o cosmos
<jennr> Is the netdesign.com domain name still for sale?  I am interested in
<jennr> purchasing the domain name.
<jennr> feh
[9:03] rvn       Kicked off #unix by cosmos [out]
[9:04] toby      Sets mode: -o cosmos
<tcsetattr> fxp?
[9:04] rvn       [~la@200.32.74.175] has joined #unix
<cosmos> heh
* jennr pets ee
<tcsetattr> what the hell
[9:04] rvn       has left #unix [~la@200.32.74.175]
<cosmos> werd.
<toby> :)
<DrLoud> Where is sendmail on HP-UX???
[9:04] Dr_Radium Sets mode: -b %n!*@*
<forcer> tcsetattr: You're not familiar with it?
[9:04] patpoker  [patpoker@dakota.gate.net] has joined #unix
<tcsetattr> no.
<n0n0>  /usr/lib ?
<n0n0> dr: or use find
* tcsetattr does yet another <bsd.prog.mk> conversion
<Cephas> SNEAKERS FUCKING ROCKS
[9:04] CLinCH    [clinch@70.san-francisco-01.ca.dial-access.att.net] has joined #unix
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<toby> drloud, /usr/lib/sendmail   mebbe
<cstone> yeah, that's a neat movie
<forcer> tcsetattr: It allows you to transfer files from one ftp directly to another, bypassing you own system.
[9:05] gweeds    [~gweeds@binkley.interscape.com] has joined #unix
<gweeds> children of the cr0n
<gweeds> !@#
[9:05] Bitsie    [zoofed@dyn-max20-151.chicago.il.ameritech.net] has joined #unix
<tcsetattr> oh
<tcsetattr> sounds like fun.
<Bitsie> life after orgasm is pretty boring :(
<cstone> wow, erica's trying to fit in
<patpoker> any sco people here ?
* in4mer laughs
<gweeds> pwd ; ps -ef | grep koolmoed
<gweeds> fuck
<toby> bitsie, i'll blow both our loads, lady
<Bitsie> cstone: why do u say i'm trying to fit in?
<cosmos> i used to live downtown 129th street
[9:06] _smeagol  has left #Unix [smeagol@155.48.100.252]
<Bitsie> i don't carry a load
<gweeds> cosmos: !@#!@#!@#
<tcsetattr> ${.IMPSRC}
<tcsetattr> bleh
<cosmos> wild wild west
<mouse> yeah baby!
<cstone> bitsie: because you're talking sex, which is the predominant conversation topic in #unix
<mouse> that worked
<Bitsie> cstone: wow!
<mouse> cstone; /i#059 and /i#059,28 return same thing, while /i#059,xx return bunches of different things
<patpoker> any sco people here ?
[9:07] gweeds    has left #unix [~gweeds@binkley.interscape.com]
[9:07] SignOff: Bitsie    [Leaving]
<toby> patpoker, fireclown is the token sco person here.
<frostbyte> haha
<Cephas> Fc fucking WORKS for SCO
<toby> he is a nice guy.  we forgive him for using sco.
<patpoker> thanks toby
<frostbyte> Cephas: no no
<patpoker> hahahah
<Cephas> toby: he is a she
<mouse> oh
<frostbyte> Cephas: fireclown != Fc
<mouse> well then i go and crash it
<mouse> heh
<frostbyte> Fc == Figz
<toby> ah
<patpoker> sco has its shortcommings in certain things
<LeVu> doh
<toby> wtf do i know
<mouse> WHOA
<mouse> Arithmetic exception (core dumped)
<mouse> w
<cstone> what'd you do?
<Cephas> Frost: I know that..Iw as shortening her name
<mouse> i never got one of those before!!!
<LeVu> SCO has NUMA tho
<mouse> thats elite
<neptho> kline Kha0s :P
<frostbyte> Cephas: her?
<mouse> nuts
<frostbyte> Cephas: fireclown is a she?
<LeVu> NUMA NUMA NUMA
<mouse> it was a divide by zero error
<patpoker> I'm on sco now, for some reason I took a liking to it
<LeVu> fc is not a she
<mouse> lame!! LAME!!
<cstone> oh, whoops
<toby> mouse, include math.h
<Cephas> FireClown == [f]
* toby ducks
<mouse> i guess i better check for zero
*** neptho    is now known as Neptho-69
<frostbyte> LeVu: right fc == figz
<cstone> i wasn't even thinking about 0 when i gave you those made-up routines :)
<patpoker> despite that pains of compiling anything on it
<cosmos> AIX/X86 to be released Fall 98, promises 64 bit UNIX power to the Intel platform!
<mouse> toby: #include <ignore_divide_by_zero_math.h>
<LeVu> cephas: fireclown != [f]
<frostbyte> heh
<Cephas> LeVu Fc == Ficus FireClown == She
<Adrian> cosmos - oh god .. no.. :)
<frostbyte> wait wait
<LeVu> figz is a she?
<frostbyte> FireClown is a she?
<LeVu> figz == fireclown == fc ?
[9:10] LeVu      Kicked off #UNIX by Cephas [ WAKE UP]
<frostbyte> levu: no
<patpoker> fireclown: I have a question
[9:10] LeVu      [poa@fullof.blarney.org] has joined #unix
[9:10] Cephas    Sets mode: +o LeVu
<LeVu> now wait just a second
<frostbyte> wait
<Bifrost> fireclown is very male...
<toby> aix is strange.  prints nice.
<Evil_Ed> you can't divide by zero yet? lamer. i do it all the time. its a snap.
<n0n0> frost: nop .. it's a clown on fire
<LeVu> fireclown is male
<Cephas> Figz == Fc
<mouse> obviously :)
<LeVu> heh
<LeVu> ok
<frostbyte> Cephas: i dont think fireclown is a she
<Cephas> FireClown =~Female
<LeVu> nope nope
<frostbyte> Cephas: are you sure about that?
<Bifrost> ceph: shut yo you nutsaq
<Cephas> Frost: she corrected me herself
<frostbyte> fireclown cant be male
<LeVu> Ive been talkin to Fireclown for several years now.. HE is in love with a SHE
<frostbyte> we had a discussion on getting blow jobs
<toby>  i think fireclown has a penis.  cant help you after that...
<Evil_Ed> if fireclown is female, i go to work in high heels.
<DrLoud> what syntax would I use to find a file 
<Bifrost> I HAVE MET FIRECLOWN He's short, smokes lites, and works for SCO...
<mouse> so if i just += 1 to all my variables
<mouse> i shouldnt end upu with a divide by zero error
[9:11] SignOff: Neptho-69 [Operation timed out]
<jennr> ee, you do?
<LeVu> fat too
<LeVu> bif: ^5
<frostbyte> Bifrost: met shmet, did you see his penis?  thats the question
<frostbyte> ;)
<tcsetattr> int
<tcsetattr> main(argc, argv)
[9:11] myc       [myc@shell6.ba.best.com] has joined #Unix
<tcsetattr>         int argc __unused;
<tcsetattr>         char **argv;
<Bifrost> levu: well, not real fat...
[9:11] Neptho-69 [neptho@owns.greatplants.com] has joined #unix
<tcsetattr> look at that great BSD code!
<myc> hi.
<Evil_Ed> jenn, only on odd wednesdays under a blue moon in a hailstorm. 
<toby> why would a skinny person work at SCO??    ;)
<frostbyte> hehe
<Evil_Ed> while whistling and chewing gum, of course.
<tcsetattr> the __unused definition is nowhere to be found
<LeVu> heh.. well I suppose you better check then
* Adrian laughs.
<Evil_Ed> oh, and this must occur ont he 4th of july
<jennr> ee and drinking diet dp too huh?
[9:12] cosmos    has left #unix [cosmos@kerouac.hepcat.org]
*** Neptho-69 is now known as Neptho
<myc> hi
<Evil_Ed> hehehhe
<myc> dorks.
<myc> :D
* Evil_Ed licks jenn
<cstone> ew, mouse
* jennr gets licked
<cstone> guess what
<frostbyte> Neptho: 69'ing yourself again i see?
<cstone> there's a ddial clone server for *NT*.
* Bifrost thrashes about..
<patpoker> fireclown must be programming a new sco tcp stack
<mouse> cstone: where?
[9:12] myc       has left #Unix [myc@shell6.ba.best.com]
<toby> what is ddial?
<Bifrost> fucking lamer was ICMP timoute flooding me... so now I got a flood running against him. what a pain..
<mouse> is it free and does it do everything?
<cstone> one is hitmanchat.dyn.ml.org:4000
<cstone> i don't know
<mouse> hmm
<cstone> but who cares
<cstone> ew, colors
<cstone> his /h is broke too
[9:15] SignOff: Neptho    [foo]
* toby is staying up all night taking notes/compiling.  i got rice in the rice cooker and phat pot of coffeeee.
<toby> i just pipe it to grep.  tcpdump filters for you??
<Evil_Ed> [10:48 pm] [SirROB^:(merci@ix.netcom.com)] me a favor tonight ,,, put a drop of your favorite parfum between your breast tht way in the middle of the night you will know im there
<Evil_Ed> ROFL
[9:16] jennr-    [Jenn@prozac.netdesign.net] has joined #unix
* Evil_Ed hugs his 'do' client
[9:16] Evil_Ed   Sets mode: +o jennr-
<tcsetattr> well
* jennr- moans
<jennr-> heh
<Evil_Ed> jenn did you see that? :)
<jennr-> thx ee :)
<tcsetattr> the freebsd sh source is a little more sane than the netbsd sh source
<cstone> P#1<T1:HitMan)  /p me a 6 pw digtits
<Adrian> Just a little?
<cstone> this guy's clueful
<jennr-> ee you slut!
<Evil_Ed> bahahah
* Bifrost & 
<mouse> cstone: how';d you find this one?
<mouse> yeah this guy is cluuful. i would link to him after he works his bugs out.
<cstone> it was linked to gc a while ago
[9:20] v99       [chris@AfroNation.NET] has joined #unix
<cstone> he stole the /? from entchat
[9:21] v99       has left #unix [chris@AfroNation.NET]
<toby> you guys think the canadian snowboard gold medalist should have had his medal taken away?
<Dr_Radium> no
<oghost> for what?
<Dr_Radium> there is no medical evidence of THC having any performance enhancing qualities
<forcer> toby: It wasn't
<toby> tested positive for marijuana
<Dr_Radium> and the level of THC detected (16 nanograms per unit)
<forcer> toby: it was appealead and overturned, he just got a warning
<forcer> toby: He got his medal back though.
<toby> forcer, on good.
[9:22] canter    [neutrino@ppp-annex-0338.mtl.total.net] has joined #unix
*** Traycer   is now known as TrayAway
<Dr_Radium> is half an order of magnitude less than what is restricted % for operators of heavy equiptment
<toby> s/on/oh
<forcer> toby: I know, I couldn't believe they would do that..
<in4mer> forcer: good.
<toby> steroids yes, pot no
<in4mer> i'm extremely glad to hear that
<Dr_Radium> and there is reason to believe that it's from second hand smoke from his bon-voyage party last week
<Snooze> what company makes a decent isdn router?
<Evil_Ed> sure, i buy that
<in4mer> heh yeah.  HE JOOZD POT TEW GO FASTER CUZ CUZ CUZ....
<Evil_Ed> and clinton didnt inhale
[9:23] Fenriz    [robb@usertest.teleport.com] has joined #unix
<sigint> haha
<Dr_Radium> Peekaboo Street won at least 1 gold for the women's giant slalom
<toby> :)
<in4mer> snooze: ascend
<Fenriz> Picabo
<in4mer> snooze: cisco
<forcer> Yeah, he definitely wasn't trying to cheat. If anything, it's a detriment to good performance..
<sigint> picabo
<sigint> not peekaboo
<Dr_Radium> whatever
<Snooze> in4mer that i can afford?
<Dr_Radium> picabo
<forcer> picabo street?
<sigint> pico
* sigint shudders
<sigint> pico street
<Adrian> Hrm.
<Adrian> Anyone here played with mbone?
<in4mer> snooze: go lookin for a used pipeline50
<terrapinn> hmmmm
<sigint> there are so many ways those drug tests can be made to lie
<in4mer> adrian: yeah
<sigint> it's not even amusing 
<tcsetattr>         quad_t val = 0;
<tcsetattr> what the fsck is that supposed to be
<in4mer> mandatory drug testing isn't right
<sigint> you could get fired for eating bread with poppy seeds
<Adrian> in4mer - whats the average traffic useage with mbone?
<cstone> quad_t? heh
<in4mer> adrian: if you've got a smart router, it depends on what you'rs listening to/watching
[9:26] nrf       [~junkmail@FARINA-8.SLIP.ANDREW.CMU.EDU] has joined #unix
<in4mer> adrian: if you're not on any channels, around 3kbps
[9:26] cooler2   [~cooler2@atlantis-int.com] has joined #unix
<tcsetattr> apparently, freebsd uses a long long for rlimits
<in4mer> that's kb not kB
<Adrian> 3kbit or byte?
<toby> who is kibo?
[9:26] phroze    [iceblade@aure.entuluva.org] has joined #unix
<Adrian> (I'm half asleep right now..)
<tcsetattr> what a wonderful way to introduce portability problems
<in4mer> maybe it is kB tho..
<Dr_Radium> "who is kibo?"
<Dr_Radium> "who is kibo?"?????
<toby> yes
<in4mer> who knows :+P
<Adrian> What about if you're in a channel? Whats the useage then?
[9:26] toby      Kicked off #Unix by Dr_Radium [Dr_Radium]
[9:26] alphaa    [alphaa@user-38lc2l6.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #unix
[9:27] toby      [~toby@license.conley.com] has joined #unix
* tcsetattr solves the problem... by deleting the ulimit builtin. /bin/sh don't need that bloat.
[9:27] Evil_Ed   Sets mode: +o toby
<Dossy-> DON'T MENTION KIBO
<in4mer> NO KAYPERSON
[9:27] cooler2   has left #unix [~cooler2@atlantis-int.com]
<Dossy-> god, now we've done it...
* Dr_Radium reduces toby two steps in rank to "usenet novice"
<Cephas> kibo?
* Adrian is waying up an AU mbone feed but needs to know what he's up against.
<in4mer> WE'RE ALL SKROOD
<toby> ~ :finger kibo
<toby> kibo     . James "Kibo" Parry           q53*usr1-5 (Virtual Terminal)
<sigint> WHO /KILLED KENNY?
<toby> kibo works at world now.
<Dossy-> toby: OH NO!
<cstone> only every vanity oper who's seen an episode of southpark, sigint
<in4mer> adrian: you have a cisco with a recent version of IOS on it right?
<sigint> cstone: southpark?
<Adrian> in4mer : *slap*. :)
<sigint> cstone: i saw "who killed kenny?" on somebody's shirt
<cstone> isn't that where the "you killed kenny" thing is from?
<DrLoud> I have a bunch of Cisco IOS's
* sigint is an old crusty bastard who doesnt watch tv
<in4mer> adrian: just checkin g:+)
<cstone> yeah, it's from a tv show called southpark
<sigint> ah
<cstone> i've never seen it either
[9:28] NetSplit: emulex    [irc.ais.net - irc.anet-stl.com]
[9:28] NetSplit: mr_tech   [irc.ais.net - irc.anet-stl.com]
[9:28] NetSplit: kalium    [irc.ais.net - irc.anet-stl.com]
[9:28] NetSplit: Evil_Ed   [irc.ais.net - irc.anet-stl.com]
[9:28] emulex    [sin@monster.hippie.com] has joined #unix
[9:28] SignOff: Fenriz    [Leaving]
<DrLoud> for routers and switches
<in4mer> GODDAMN THIS G KEY
<Adrian> The only one I can fsck around with is the 4000 atm but.. :/
<terrapinn> is south park on yet?
[9:29] Evil_Ed   [~delive@38.26.133.187] has joined #unix
[9:29] DrLoud    Kicked off #unix by in4mer [ KRIZKO W4R3Z]
[9:29] Evil_Ed   Kicked off #unix by toby [beyotch]
[9:29] SignOff: LeVu      [Ping timeout]
<toby> lol
[9:29] SignOff: pakrat    [Ping timeout]
[9:29] Evil_Ed   [~delive@38.26.133.187] has joined #unix
<tcsetattr> yay, more quad_t's!
[9:30] toby      Sets mode: +o Evil_Ed
[9:30] LeVu      [poa@fullof.blarney.org] has joined #unix
<tcsetattr> I take back what I said
<tcsetattr> freebsd's source is just as horrible as netbsd
<LeVu> hmm
[9:30] Evil_Ed   Sets mode: -o+b toby *!*toby@*.conley.com
[9:30] toby      Kicked off #unix by Evil_Ed [you get back in wen you tell me a) why i died and b) why you kicked me :P]
<in4mer> adrian: well be careful you have enough RAM for buffers with mbone on that 4000
<LeVu> hmm
<LeVu> arghh
[9:30] Evil_Ed   Sets mode: -b *!*toby@*.conley.com
<Adrian> in4mer : *nod*
[9:30] SignOff: LeVu      [brb]
<cstone> pacman: do they use pipe() in a bidirectional manner?
<Adrian> Are you talking about routing multicast over the 4000 ?
[9:30] LeVu      [poa@fullof.blarney.org] has joined #unix
<in4mer> adrian: well yeah.
<cstone> the silly POSIX people weren't articulate enough to specify that pipe() is supposed to be one-way
<Adrian> erm.
<Adrian> And you think AU backbone providers enable mcast routing?
<tcsetattr> heehhe
<tcsetattr> I hope this thing doesn't use pipe bidirectional :)
<tcsetattr> I don't think it does
<Adrian> I'd be running an IP tunnel somewhere.
<tcsetattr> but damn
<tcsetattr> quad_t
<tcsetattr> that's an annoyance
<LeVu> shewp
<in4mer> adrian: you have one segment that you're going to be spewing all this mbone to?
<tcsetattr> and it seems to have its own very special version of printf in it
[9:31] toby      [~toby@license.conley.com] has joined #unix
[9:31] Evil_Ed   Sets mode: +o toby
<tcsetattr> not a wraper that calls vprintf
<mouse> wow
<mouse> that was pretty weird
<tcsetattr> I mean, this thing has got printf-like guts
<Evil_Ed> what was my quitmsg?
[9:32] Snooze    Sets mode: +o LeVu
[9:32] Figz      Sets mode: +oo oghost teletype
<Snooze> [ Whois eatmyfuk!eatmyfuk@0wned.org (Organization) ]
<Snooze> what kind of nick is that?
<mouse> i like my ddial better
<Adrian> in4mer - I'd be bringing the mbone in on one ethernet hookup, and then running multicast on another one to people.
<Adrian> Its just a trial.
<in4mer> adrian: you'd be running IP encap mcast
<cstone> mouse, me too
<in4mer> what kinda enet is it?
[9:32] SignOff: canter    [Leaving]
<oghost> what is this 'papa johns'?
<cstone> plus, yours is on *nix
<oghost> oops
<Adrian> Just 10baseT.
[9:33] Ada       [ada@ishtar.gmp.usyd.edu.au] has joined #unix
<Adrian> Hey ada.
<cstone> papa john's is pretty good, for a chain
[9:33] cstone    Sets mode: +o Ada
<oghost> what is it?
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<sigint> bwahaha the "mouseketeers" are on
<sigint> the Original Barney(tm)
<in4mer> original blarney :+P
<toby> b'harney
<cstone> pizza chain owned by an original pizza hut founder
<in4mer> SOMEBODY JUST BLOW HIS FUCKING HEAD OFF
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<oghost> chicago-style or new york?
<toby> jihad against b'harney!
<oghost> no
<oghost> oops
<sigint> hahahhaha
<in4mer> hehe
<Cephas> nose-sex++
<in4mer> cstone: SOMEBODY OWNED PIZZAHUT??!
* in4mer laughs
<tcsetattr> oh brother
[9:34] VIL3_5IN  [~ddl@74.dallas-25.tx.dial-access.att.net] has joined #unix
<cstone> chicago-style
<Dossy> www.pizza-hut.com!
<Dossy> 0wn it t0day!
<in4mer> hehe
<tcsetattr> ok
<in4mer> i wonder what kinda stuff you could put up there..
* Cephas needs to go now.....SNeakers is almost over and I need to have some fun
<sigint> i think sbarro's makes some nice pizza
<sigint> new yak style
<in4mer> sigint: uhm if you like eating solid grease :+P
<cstone> sbarro's is okay
<in4mer> christ you people are sick
<sigint> in4mer: and you think papa john's isnt? ;p
<in4mer> sbarros is nasty fuckin pizza
<in4mer> papa johns fuckin sucks too
<sigint> oh-kay
<in4mer> there's a place in san francisco
<sigint> let me guess.. you like... domino's?
<cstone> ew domino's
<toby> dunkin donuts is the place to meet ready older wimmin
<in4mer> it's called 'georgios'
<in4mer> it's the bomb
<toby> at 3am
<sigint> oh, well fuq.  i'm not in san fran right now
<cstone> that'd rock, you see, if i lived in san francisco
<mouse> i wish my friend would mail me back about running a ddial
<in4mer> all the chain places suck ass anyways.
<cstone> yeah, i usually order from a local place
<in4mer> cstone: well *i* moved here for the pizza :+P
<mouse> cstone: how do you find out about all these ddials?
* in4mer giggles
<cstone> mouse: gc
<sigint> hehe.. no sillycon valley for in4mer, just a little pizza joint
[9:37] abcdefghi has left #unix [~a@poste35-61.residences.ulaval.ca]
<sigint> sbarro has some of the better deals i've seen
<in4mer> well i also moved here so that i could go around and pee on all of the SGI buildings, but i've already done that :+P
[9:37] SignOff: Cephas    [Go Hard.]
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<in4mer> so now it's just up to the pizza
<sigint> two super slices, caeser's salad, and medium drink for under $4
<tcsetattr> hm
<tcsetattr> I can't do this freebsd sh port
<Snooze> why can't stupid cisco put their prices on their web page?
<tcsetattr> it's got much more serious non-portable things in it
<oghost> pacman
<Ada> what sh port?
<oghost> are you reinventing wheels again?
<sigint> gad
[9:39] SignOff: Hal911    [EOF From client]
<tcsetattr> god dammit
<sigint> oghst: should you be surprised?
<oghost> not in the least
<Ada> port from what to what, apacman?
<tcsetattr> I hate having to repeat myself, you all should take notes :)
<tcsetattr> I am on a mission to get a reasonable /bin/sh on my linux box
<oghost> hah
<tcsetattr> I have tried to port the netbsd sh, and almost succeeded
<oghost> what's wrong with linux sh?
<sigint> stand back, tcs is on a mission from Bob
<tcsetattr> it has a little bug
[9:40] SignOff: splitvt   [Leaving]
<tcsetattr> linux doesn't have a sh
<Ada> pacman:  ash
<oghost> oh
<oghost> really?
<tcsetattr> it has the Bloated Again Shell
<in4mer> i know
<oghost> hah
<toby> ibm.com:  worlds fastest supercomputer will run aix...
<tcsetattr> Ada: ash-linux has serious bugs. Segfaults
<oghost> fuckin bash rocks
<oghost> nuff said
<tcsetattr> ash-linux segfaults on more ./configure scripts
<in4mer> toby: it was fastest before they loaded aix
<tcsetattr> s/more/most/
<tcsetattr> due to long lines
<sigint> oghst: yeah, maybe too much.  how long have you been fuking bash?
<oghost> 10 years
<oghost> had three kids already
<oghost> named one zsh
<Snooze> i need to find a decent attorney
[9:41] Snooze    Sets mode: +s
<oghost> another ksh
<sigint> hahha
<oghost> and the last one 'plan-9'
<sigint> wooo
<sigint> plan 9
<Snooze> pacman run ksh93, that is a good sh substitute
<sigint> the rc shell
<tcsetattr> ash-linux is based on an extremely old netbsd sh, so I just thought I'd get a new one and port it
<Ada> pacman:  oh, freebsd's one is ash
<toby> ksh is ok
<oghost> no
<oghost> it's not 'rc'
<oghost> err
<tcsetattr> freebsd's and netbsd's are both derived from ash
<oghost> it's not 'rc shell'
<oghost> it's just another server dammit!
<tcsetattr> I have attempted porting them both today
<mouse> cstone: can you login?
<tcsetattr> freebsd has its own non-portable additions
<Snooze> <cr:#hack> electrolytes smell like semen
<tcsetattr> and netbsd has its own non-portable additions
<sigint> haha
<sigint> oghst: you run plan 9?
<oghost> i have
<tcsetattr> the freebsd one requires a hell of a lot of non-standard libc stuff
<oghost> i don't now
<sigint> i'd love to try it out someday on mah ss20
<oghost> i have hurd running on that machine now
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<tcsetattr> the netbsd only requires a few non-standard libc things, which I was able to emulate easily
<Snooze> pacman what is wrong with Ksh?
<tcsetattr> snuze, nothing's wrong with ksh. but it's not a /bin/sh.
<Snooze> ksh is a suitable replacement to sh
* phroze  (Auto-Away after 10 mins) [BX-MsgLog On]
<sigint> oghst: i know there are plan9 fs servers for *nix, but are there cpu servers as well?
<tcsetattr> no it isn't.
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[9:44] sigint    Sets mode: +b %c%n!*@*
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<tcsetattr> /bin/sh is a small shell with no bloat.
<oghost> for unix?
[9:44] sigint    Sets mode: -b %c%n!*@*
<oghost> huh?
[9:44] phroze    [iceblade@aure.entuluva.org] has joined #unix
<oghost> that makes no sense
<tcsetattr> ksh has aliases, and tilde expansion, and command line editing
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<tcsetattr> hardly suitable for being called a Bourne shell
[9:44] phroze    Kicked off #unix by Snooze [time to go bitchx boy]
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<sigint> oghost: yes, there are public domain 9fs servers (daemons) for *nix
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<sigint> oghst: one sec
<oghost> yeah
[9:44] Snooze    Sets mode: +i
[9:44] Snooze    Sets mode: -i
<oghost> it's for nfs mounting p9 remote file systems
<pbug> I love this
<sigint> *oh*
<oghost> because p9 doens't support nfs
<toby> some shells are good with the keyboard, some are minimal.  both have compromises.
* NaiD is looking for identd source, anyone?
<oghost> it's a hook daemon
<sigint> i thought it was a way of exporting filesystems to plan 9
* ghoti hiccups
<oghost> i suppose it goes both ways
<Ada> sh, and zsh
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<pbug> hi ghoti
<ghoti> Waaaaaay too much strongbow.
<oghost> i didn't use it
*** Snooze has changed the topic for #Unix to: For help goto http://www.bsd.org/faq.html or #unixhelp. Do NOT ask here!
<tcsetattr> I have now looked at netbsd-1.2 and netbsd-current
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<Ada> there's no good reason to use anything else
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* ghoti waves at pbug, blearily
<oghost> but i was commenting on cpu servers
<tcsetattr> I have located the approximate point where the bug occurs
<pbug> :)
* jennr- lewks at the time
<sigint> oghst: well, i have to wonder if you can't code a daemon for *nix which allowed plan9 clients to make use of the cpu
* _Melody_ hugs jenn
<sigint> kinda like a virtual machine
<ghoti> _Mel!
* jennr- huggles mel
<oghost> well
* ghoti hugs _Melody
<oghost> yeah
<ghoti> s/$/_/
* _Melody_ hugs ghoti :)
<oghost> but why would you run one under unix?
<tcsetattr> I want to be able to study the 1.3 and 1.3.1 sh sources too
<toby>  Of the standard shells, zsh most  closely  resem-
<toby>        bles  ksh  but includes many enhancements. 
<oghost> you might as well run plan 9 in the first place
* Evil_Ed licks mel
<oghost> lot less overhead
<tcsetattr> but do you know how fucking hard it is to get netbsd source?
* jennr- hugs ada
<tcsetattr> you have to download like a gig of tar files
* _Melody_ lix EE
<oghost> i've never even heard of such a thing
<tcsetattr> and cat them together
<in4mer> i dig zsh
* _Melody_ goes back to playing diablo
<tcsetattr> just for one little program.
<Ada> pacman:  fairly easy, I thought
* pbug group hugs.
<jennr-> heh mel
<pbug> awww
<sigint> oghst: let's just say that they don't run plan9 on the Origin200 server here ;p
* ghoti hasn't played diablo.
<pbug> :P
* ghoti plays robots.
* sigint plays wumpus
<oghost> hmm
<puma> plays robots?
<Figz> hehe, hope it's openbsd wumpus
<ghoti> robots!
* in4mer plays xpilot
<sigint> *wump*wump*wump*
<oghost> so you are running a full plan-9 system in a VM?
<oghost> that's wierd
<sigint> figz: why's that? ;p
<Figz> err, wump
<tcsetattr> Ada, you find the archive where I can get netbsd-1.3 and netbsd-1.3.1 /bin/sh source without downloading a gig of junk too
<cstone> robots!
* jennr- hugs pbug
<Figz> sigint, major bugfixes in the openbsd wump
<ghoti> robots has much lower resolution, but impacts the system far less.
<Figz> it was kindof a joke
* jennr- plays dogfight
<Adrian> tcsetattr - CVS?
<tcsetattr> it's just not organized
<cstone> figz: that PR was hilarious
* Evil_Ed crawls into jenn's lap and curls up
<sigint> oghst: no, no... *sigh* i have a dinky 486 running plan9
<tcsetattr> one-huge-tarfile distribution, blah
<cstone> "playing wump for long periods of time causes it to break"
<Adrian> You could write a cvsup file that just grabbed src/bin/sh possibly.
<tcsetattr> urg
<Figz> someone noticed some bug or other, so now they've modified it several times
<ghoti> Man.  Too much cider.  My eyes can't keep up with the channel.
<toby> reading&
<Figz> cstone, yea :)
<tcsetattr> I don't understand why people keep telling me "CVS"
* Adrian grins at tc.
<sigint> oghst: just wondering if it would be possible to get a daemon up under irix that would allow me to use the origin's cpu horsepower for plan9 apps
<Adrian> Hell, I still don't have CVS working right.
<Adrian> but it works. :)
<sigint> (this is one of the central concepts of plan9, distributed services)
* ghoti votes for sigint.
<ghoti> What are we voting for?
<tcsetattr> I sometimes see directories named "CVS"
<sigint> i have no idea
<tcsetattr> and I look in them
<tcsetattr> and ther eis not untarred source in there
<tcsetattr> how does that help me?
<Adrian> tcsetattr - it is just for the CVS info for the files in the directory.
* jennr- coughs
<sigint> oper oper on the /wall, who's the most annoying spambot of all?
* Adrian goes off to hax0r a realaudio server to play his mp3s in realtime.
<Ada> okay, what's the difference between 1.3 and -current?
<tcsetattr> I don't know, ada, I haven't managed to get the 1.3 source
* ghoti can't focus.  Maybe sleep is in order.
* jennr- looks to see if mp3 is included in the ASFv2 spec
* sigint sees strange insects on the wall
<sigint> maybe i should go to bed
<sigint> or call an exterminator
<tcsetattr> the difference between 1.2 and current is related to a function called ifsbreakup
<ghoti> sigint: stop using halucinogens.
<tcsetattr> and a flag named EXP_RECORD
<sigint> ghoti: it was a stamp from the post office machine, really!
[9:52] obtuse    [ldschaeffe@ip170.los-angeles11.ca.pub-ip.psi.net] has joined #unix
<ghoti> PostOffice.  What a broken piece of trash.
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<tcsetattr> it's a thing that doesn't exist in 1.2 but gets called early in argument expansion in current
<in4mer> tcsetattr: what's the current version?
<ghoti> Don't remind me.  I have to deal with it in the mornint.
<vi> i found a way to get rid of the spambots:
<in4mer> ghoti: christ almighty i know man.  PO sucks nads.
<ghoti> s/nt/ng/
<vi> /ig *1?p!*@*
<vi> er
<tcsetattr> it causes for i in 'foo bar' to split the foo and bar into 2 words
<vi> /ig *1?f!*@*
<sigint> whoah
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<sigint> i think vi is hallucinating too
<sigint> or i am hallucinating him hallucinating
<sigint> wow
*** nrf       is now known as maxint
<ghoti> How the hell do you convince a company that already paid for postoffice that they can get better service out of sendmail, which is free?!?
<Ada> postoffice?
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<tcsetattr> s/sendmail/qmail/g
<jennr> MPEG Layer 3 (bldfkp) {00000055-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
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* ghoti , in his drunken stupor, reminiscs about the time when companies blindly followed the advice of consultants because they didn't think they knew more
<jennr> yeap mp3 is a guid in the asfv2 spec
<in4mer> ghoti: you hand them an administration cost spreadsheet.  you say "with postoffice, there's an ongoing investment of my time, x number of hours a week.  with sendmail, there's x number of hours i have to configure it.  no ongoing maintenance."
<Figz> To which room do you wish to move? 10
<Figz> *flap*  *flap*  *flap*  (humongous bats pick you up and move you!)
<Figz> *flap*  *flap*  *flap*  (humongous bats pick you up and move you again!)
<Figz> *ROAR* *chomp* *snurfle* *chomp*!
<Figz> Much to the delight of the Wumpus, you walked right into his mouth,
* tcsetattr sighs and downloads 27 fucking megs of source - when I only need the 110k /bin/sh source
<Figz> this game is horrible!
<tcsetattr> THANK YOU BSD FOR SUCKING!
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<sigint> hahaha figz
<cstone> haha
* sigint rotfl
* sigint rotflmao
<ghoti> in4mer, and they grab PostOffice, because they can't conceive of "value" unless there's some monetary investment involved.
<sigint> tcs: shut up
<Figz> pacman, you want ksh or ash?
[9:55] SignOff: ff-       [zzzzz]
<in4mer> haha
<Figz> or whatever freebsd uses?
<in4mer> yeah i've been there before
<tcsetattr> I want ash
<cstone> all operating systems suck
<in4mer> BUT WE WANNA PAY FOR NETSCAPE IT HAS TO BE BETTER.  APACHE IS FREE, DON'T YOU GET IT??
<Figz> ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-current/src/bin/ash
<Idcmp> You can send me money.
* ghoti offers to charge people for Netscape
<tcsetattr> Figzy, NetBSD-current has a bug in sh.
<ghoti> Here!  I'll take your money!`
<tcsetattr> that's why I'm trying to get 1.3 now
<Figz> openbsd uses ksh with mods to make it more posixly sh
<tcsetattr> but 1.3 doesn't have any easily-gotten source
<in4mer> hehe yeah, "i'll do better things with that money anyways"
<Figz> similar path, but openbsd and look for ksh
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<tcsetattr> I've done this already
<tcsetattr> I'm not stupid
<Figz> what's the bug in ash?
* ghoti has seriously been thinking of making his own set of proprietary sendmail patches, just so he can charge people to use them.
<tcsetattr> I'm a victim of lousy bsd distribution systems :)
<ghoti> Is that sick, or what?
<tcsetattr> sh -c 'for i in "foo bar";do echo $i;done' | wc -l
<Ada> why not look for openbsd sh?
<tcsetattr> openbsd sh == ksh
<Figz> pacman, bsd's live source trees are VASTLY better than linux's static packages
<tcsetattr> ksh == not Bourne.
<DrLoud> Is anyone using Netscape Messanger for E-Mail
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<in4mer> ghoti: "and THIS patch lets MY version of sendmail actually DELIVER the mail to the end user.  $5000 a user license, thank you drive thru."
<bZ> Fri Feb 13 14:04:38 SGT 1998
<bZ> Friday the 13th.. Bwahaha
<tcsetattr> Figz, bsd's live source tree is a damn huge tar file that I have to download when all I want is one program.
<bZ> om4,er. jeje
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<tcsetattr> gnu packages are never that lame
<sigint> *narf*
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<bZ> in4mer, hehe
* in4mer laughs
<sigint> tcs: have you considered groking the 4.4bsd-lite2 src?
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<Figz> pacman, what does ash do with that?
<Figz> ksh seems to think it's an ok command
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<tcsetattr> it prints 2 lines (i.e. wc -l prints 2)
<ghoti> Man, it's the 13th already?
<Figz> so does bash
<tcsetattr> it word-splits the 'foo bar'
<Figz> oh
* ghoti was hoping to sleep through that.
<Figz> two lines? I get one line both ksh called as sh, and bash
* cstone is going to sleep through valentine's day
<Figz> so I guess openbsd's is ok
<Figz> why would it split the two words?
<tcsetattr> openbsd's sh is ksh, so it works, but I am looking for a Bourne shell, not a Korn shell
<tcsetattr> because it's a bug.
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<Figz> openbsd's ksh when called as sh IS a bourne shell
<ghoti> cstone, I would too, but my gf would object.  :-/
<oghost> but pacman
<oghost> if it's a korn shell
<oghost> with a better sh emulation
<Figz> it has all the posixly required features of the bourne shell
<oghost> than linux has
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<oghost> why care?
<Figz> as opposed to ash, which just plain sucks
<tcsetattr> because it's bloated!
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<ghoti> ash?
<tcsetattr> ksh == bloat, bloat == bad
<Figz> ash == copyrite free bourne shell
<Figz> pacman, how many bytes is a static ash?
<tcsetattr> static?
<tcsetattr> hahaha
<tcsetattr> you are way off :)
<tcsetattr> I don't use static linking.
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<tcsetattr> static linking is obsolete...
<Figz> not on your primary shell?
<oghost> uhh
<oghost> pacman
<oghost> what happens when /usr doesn't fsck
<tcsetattr> I have /sbin/init dynamically linked and that's the way I likes it.
<Ada> noether 17:00 ~% ls -l =sh 
<Ada> -r-xr-xr-x  1 bin  bin  315392 Aug 31 18:22 /bin/sh
* ghoti is out of touch, obviously.  Didn't know bourne had copyrights restricting it.
<in4mer> put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye.
<Figz> that's ash, ada?
<Ada> that's ash
<Adrian> init dynamically linked?
<Adrian> HUH?
<Ada> statically linked
<tcsetattr> I have rescue-floppies.
<Figz> -r-xr-xr-x  3 root  bin  282624 Dec 19 12:42 /bin/sh
<oghost> oh man
<oghost> that's retarded pacman
<tcsetattr> I have a rescue plan. It does not involve the obsolete practice of static linking. :)
<Figz> that's openbsd's ksh
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<LeVu> yeeesh.. lickadick.com]
<oghost> i've heard some whoppers outta you
<oghost> but that takes the cake
<tcsetattr> you are stuck in the past.
* sigint perks up
<Figz> pretty similar, from the bin perspective
<sigint> ogst: which is that?
* in4mer laughs
<ghoti> tcs: aren't plans wonderful?  They let you rationalize SO much!
<in4mer> he's trolling, leave him alone.
<warfire> Can anyone help me with regards to mail/smtp and responding to a certain message ? :>
<tcsetattr> static linking is really unnecessary. If you have a crash, you have a problem. You better damn well have bootdisks anyway.
<Figz> pacman, keeping around 20 critical bins staticly linked required all of a meg or so of space
<oghost> he'd rather put an (obviously static) shell on a floppy and call it a 'rescue floppy' then have a static version in /bin
<tcsetattr> yes, I would, og
<sigint> hehe
<sigint> hehe
<tcsetattr> it makes much more sense to have it on a floppy
* sigint rotfl
<Figz> which can save you rooting around for a recovery floppy which hasn't been used in years, and may or may not work
<oghost> see?
<oghost> see this brain damage?
<tcsetattr> than to have it on THE SAME HARD DRIVE that you are trying to recover!
* oghost shines a light in pacman's ear
<warfire> anyone ? ;>
<tcsetattr> brain damage is you
<sigint> haha
* oghost waves his hand on the other side and watches it shine clean through
<sigint> tcs: lern to spel mahng ;>
<oghost> pacman
<Ada> pacman:  why not have it static?  better performance
<tcsetattr> you think you're going to repair a broken hard drive... by running a static binary off the broken hard drive?
<oghost> i'm not saying you shouldn't have rescue floppies
<oghost> but like
<oghost> INSTEAD of a static version on your drive?
<oghost> how often does your root partition explode?
<Figz> pacman, it's still possible to corrupt a filesystem without physical damage
* ghoti has a better solution.
<tcsetattr> yes. a static version on the hard drive serves no purpose
<oghost> bullshit
<Figz> and many people have serarate drives for /usr
<sigint> oghst: he's running some leenax distribution
<ghoti> Don't rely on your system.  Use paper instead.
<oghost> a static version of the harddrive loads 10x as fast as a static version on a floppy
<tcsetattr> I do use paper, for important things.
[10:04] warfire   has left #unix [firewar@fire.rc.co.za]
<sigint> ghoti: here, here! pass me the 029 keypunch!
<tcsetattr> uh
<cstone> figz: are you running soft updates?
<tcsetattr> I believe my resuce floppy has libc.so on it
<Ada> pacman:  dynlinked init is utterly stupid on x86
<Figz> cstone, not as yet...
<tcsetattr> and a statically-linked init, probably
<oghost> Ada
<tcsetattr> oops
<oghost> for all intents and purposes
<tcsetattr> dynamic init I meant.
<oghost> pure IQ excluded
<oghost> pacman qualifies for utterly stupid
<tcsetattr> there is no damn reason for static linking anymore.
<tcsetattr> except for ldconfig.
* ghoti looks at tcs
[10:05] BeAkErZ   [fsr@a48-pdx04-21.teleport.com] has joined #unix
<ghoti> Um...
<tcsetattr> I'm not stupid. I'm just not stuck in the past like you
<oghost> stuck in the past.
<oghost> you know
<oghost> i won't even comment on that
* ghoti relegates himself to "stuck in the past", like unix, instead of Win95.
<Ada> pacman:  look, how much cpu time does init conume?
<tcsetattr> you tell me how your rescue plan is better than mine
<BeAkErZ> Hello
* ghoti hands tcs a dll
<oghost> mr. who-needs-graphics-where's-my-vt100
<terrapinn> hmmm
<Ada> pacman:  fewer critical things to get fried
* ghoti uses a vt100!
<tcsetattr> it's not about cpu time. I have shitloads of unused CPU cycles. I have extremely few free disk blocks
<oghost> buy more disk
<oghost> it's as cheap as CPU now.
* cstone would rather have a vt100 than a 1280x1024 x terminal, for the record
<tcsetattr> nope. I don't throw money at my computer.
<Ada> pacman:  boot_crunch
[10:06] UNIXer    [big@access.kuwait.net] has joined #unix
<tcsetattr> I just bought it 3.5 years ago. It is going to last me, as is, for a good long time and it's not going to suck money from me
* ghoti likes 1280x1024, because it fits 132x60 quite nicely, which vt100 does not
<in4mer> pacman: yer in denial dood.  you've no hope.
* jennr- has a 1600x1200 with several vt100 screens :)
* cstone likes his 486/66
<UNIXer> Hi all any one got any idea about isntalling ircii2.8.2-EPIC ?
<tcsetattr> I don't attempt to solve problems by throwing money at them.
<BeAkErZ> If anyone has an eggbot they can lend me to start a channel msg me. I would reall appreciate it. 
* ghoti puts his head in jennr's lap and purrs
<tcsetattr> I solve problems by making the best of what I have
<oghost> umm
<in4mer> pacman: sounds like my management.  i'd suggest you change your tune.
[10:07] BeAkErZ   Kicked off #unix by cstone [out]
<oghost> pacman
<Ada> if you have a decent vm system, a boot_crunched setup is smaller and more efficient than dnamic linking
<in4mer> pacman: you're starting to piss me off
<oghost> YOU ARE FUCKING RETARDED
<tcsetattr> I make the most of my disk space by declaring static binaries obsolete
<oghost> YOU ARE FUCKING RETARDED
<tcsetattr> whatever.
<oghost> EOT
<UNIXer> ops
<in4mer> bahaha
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<oghost> god
<tcsetattr> why am I pissing you off? because I don't go along with the computer industry's "Buy a new computer every year" philosophy?
<oghost> fuck no!
<Evil_Ed> my monitor's not in 1600x1200
* jennr- sighs
<Ada> pacman:  static init and zsh.  
<Evil_Ed> not enough ram :-/
<oghost> hell i still use my damn 3b1
<in4mer> uh no because you believe that in fact you get what you don't pay for
<jennr-> ee :P
<oghost> don't give me that shit
<jennr-> aw
<Evil_Ed> not in true color anyway
<tcsetattr> because I recognize that if there's a crash, the floppies are the only thing that's going to save me?
<jennr-> matrox II :)
<oghost> goddamnit, just because a floppy will save you doesn't mean a static sh binary won't
<Evil_Ed> i have an original millenium in mine
<oghost> but without a static sh binary you GUARANTEE you need the stupid floppies
<oghost> guess what
<Evil_Ed> only 4 megs on it, but i got it over a year ago
<ghoti> tcs, it's not "buy a new computer every year", it's "let the company buy you a new computer whenever possible".
<Evil_Ed> so *shrug*
<oghost> floppies go bad a shitload more than harddrives do
<Evil_Ed> :)
<in4mer> /sbin/sh:	ELF 32-bit MSB executable SPARC Version 1, statically linked, stripped
<tcsetattr> the cases where statically-linked /bin/sh would help are a subset of the cases where a bootdisk will help
<in4mer> word
<jennr-> ee =)
<Ada> pacman:  a static init and zsh binary means that you can fix any error that doesn't involve either of those two binaries
* ghoti had a 3b1 until last year, when it lost its magic smoke
<oghost> that's fucking right, but that doesn't make it useless
<sigint> oghst: i have a very simple solution
<Evil_Ed> hm
<sigint> i have an alternate /  partition
<oghost> only a moron would conclude that because it only handles a subset of the cases it is useless/obsolete
<oghost> it's also 10x faster 
* Evil_Ed ponders bumping it up to 1600x1200 again
<in4mer> pacman: with a dynamic shell & and dynamic mv, try moving libc.so
<Ada> actually
<Ada> zsh can't mount
<oghost> HAHAHAHHA in4mer
<Evil_Ed> hm
<tcsetattr> Ada, what good is a static zsh... if you already have a zsh running at the time the problem occurs, you don't need it to be static. if you don't, you'll also need getty, login,...
<oghost> HAHAAH
<Evil_Ed> 60hz does NOT look right
<oghost> hah
<oghost> hah
<oghost> <-- hurts
* Evil_Ed wonders if he can manually change it
<tcsetattr> it only handles a subset AND it wastes my resources.
* sigint lol
<oghost> <in4mer> pacman: with a dynamic shell & and dynamic mv, try moving libc.so
*** oghost has changed the topic for #Unix to: <in4mer> pacman: with a dynamic shell & and dynamic mv, try moving libc.so
<sigint> <in4mer> pacman: with a dynamic shell & and dynamic mv, try moving libc.so
<tcsetattr> I have done that.
<tcsetattr> I have screwed up my libc.so
<tcsetattr> you know how I fix it?
<tcsetattr> with 2 static binaries
<Ada> pacman:  you need init, and zsh, and then you boot single-user
<jennr-> ee, and i have an ati graphics pro turbo (4mb) and stealth 3d (4mb) =)
<tcsetattr> neither of them are a shell
<tcsetattr> sln
<oghost> BUT
<tcsetattr> and ldconfig
<tcsetattr> that's all.
<oghost> STATIC BINARIES ARE OBSOLETE!
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* terrapinn watches a show about dung beetles
<Adrian> oghost - bullshit.
<tcsetattr> that might have been an overstatement
<terrapinn> these things are fighting over elephant turds!
* sigint hands AST's OS design book and says something about Linus Torvald's "final exam"
<Evil_Ed> :P
<ghoti> Dung beetles!  What an awesome game that was!
<tcsetattr> static binaries are obsolete except for sln and ldconfig
<Adrian> Ever tried to recover a system after the libraries have been corrupted?
<oghost> Adrian
<oghost> pay attention
<Evil_Ed> i have a monster3d in my ppro with the matrox
<oghost> that's pacman's statement monkey boy
<Adrian> Hrm?
<jennr-> ee =)
* Adrian pays attention.
<Adrian> Enlighten me. :)
* ghoti reminiscs about his apple ][+
<tcsetattr> Adrian, please do not jump in the middle of a conversation without knowing what it's about. That is annoying.
<tcsetattr> get an irc client with a scrollback buffer
<Adrian> I have one.
* jennr- reminices about her gemini zorba
<Ada> pacman:  wat is the difference in size between dynlinked init/zsh and static init/zsh?
<Adrian> I'm just unable to use it just right now. *sigh..*
<tcsetattr> I don't know
<tcsetattr> I don't have any static zsh around
<tcsetattr> why would I?
<in4mer> well let's compare sh
<tcsetattr> I filled my hard drive at least 3 times today
<in4mer> -r-xr-xr-x   3 bin      root       88620 Jul 15  1997 /bin/sh
<in4mer> -r-xr-xr-x   2 bin      root      251712 Jul 15  1997 /sbin/sh
<in4mer> that's quite a difference
<tcsetattr> if I can save myself 1 block, I'll do it.
* ghoti realizes that hard disks are cheaper than time
* jennr- agrees
* Evil_Ed screws with his monitor settings
<Ada> so, we're looking at 170k for a shell of libc
* jennr- hands ee a screwdriver
<Ada> so, say 400k altogether
<tcsetattr> that's wonderful. and the next time I buy a computer, I'm sure it'll have a bigger hard drive. But I'm not buying a new computer this year. or next year. or the year after that.
<Snooze> my isp is using an nt box?
<Snooze> http://careers.best.com:80/Scripts/cgihndlr.exe/RT=TE/TEM=teDTL01.nst/LR=L/JB=8/S1=1168/TECT=1/PT=3
<tcsetattr> I just bought this one, and it's doing fine
<Snooze> cgi.exe?
<in4mer> tcsetattr: why don't you buy *ANOTHER* hard drive instead of a WHOLE NEW COMPUTER?
[10:14] zyne      [21316@poincare.math.rochester.edu] has joined #Unix
<Evil_Ed> woo, heave vodka, please
<Evil_Ed> :)
<ghoti> tcs, so downgrade to SCO Xenix.
<Evil_Ed> er
<sigint> tcs: you still need to upgrade if you need more disk space
<Evil_Ed> heavy
<Evil_Ed> :)
<Evil_Ed> hm
<tcsetattr> no I don't.
<sigint> that's just backasswards stupid, boy
<Evil_Ed> i need to mod the monitors.rte file
<ghoti> tcs, you want to upgrade your OS without upgrading the hardware it relies on?  That's foolhardy.
<in4mer> extremely foolhardy
*** sigint    is now known as foolhardy
<jennr-> snooze prolly part of their frontpage deal
<tcsetattr> you've been brainwashed by the computer industry into believing that regular hardware "upgrades" are a part of life
<foolhardy> no, i'm foolhardy
<Snooze> hat you can just upgrade the harddrive? i thought you had to buy a new computer when the old one broke
<foolhardy> Hi(tm)
*** foolhardy is now known as sigint
[10:15] jennr-    Kicked off #unix by Snooze [donut justify lameness]
[10:15] jennr-    [Jenn@prozac.netdesign.net] has joined #unix
<in4mer> haha
[10:15] jennr-    Kicked off #unix by Snooze [bounce]
[10:15] jennr-    [Jenn@prozac.netdesign.net] has joined #unix
<tcsetattr> I don't do that stuff.
[10:15] jennr-    Kicked off #unix by Snooze [bounce]
[10:15] jennr-    [Jenn@prozac.netdesign.net] has joined #unix
[10:15] jennr-    Kicked off #unix by Snooze [bounce]
[10:15] jennr-    [Jenn@prozac.netdesign.net] has joined #unix
[10:15] jennr-    has left #unix [Jenn@prozac.netdesign.net]
<tcsetattr> I buy something, I keep it
<Snooze> great
<ghoti> tcs, you've forgotten that hardware gets improvements almost as often as software.
<Snooze> she's a script monkey
[10:15] Snooze    Kicked off #unix by Evil_Ed [donut kick jenn]
[10:15] Snooze    [manek@shell3.ba.best.com] has joined #unix
[10:15] powldo    [~powldo@port54.ath2.tc.hol.gr] has joined #unix
<powldo> hi all
<powldo> anyone knows what is it all about giving away free slowaris for pelvelopers ?
<jennr> oops
<in4mer> uhm
<Snooze> ed so now it's okay to be a monkey
<jennr> i forgot sorry :P
<Snooze> explain yourself
<cstone> i thought you weren't supposed to open your computer otherwise you void your Packard Bell warranty
<in4mer> BOUNCY?
<powldo> anyone knows  what is it all about sun  giving away free slowaris for pelvelopers ?
<Evil_Ed> what did she do?
<cstone> you are all using packard bells, aren't you?
<in4mer> ED I WOULD REEVALUATE YOUR POSITION
<sigint> tcs: no, you monkey boy. it is *normal* to keep the hard drives you have and *add* another hard drive or two *when* you need them
* Evil_Ed lastlogs
[10:16] sessions  [sessions@solar.sky.net] has joined #unix
<oghost> HAHAHHAA
[10:16] H8reD     [H8@unix.org] has joined #unix
<tcsetattr> ghoti, I refuse to spend more money to replace something I just got.
<oghost> <cstone> you are all using packard bells, aren't you?
<Snooze> homeboy you better op me and check yourself
<cstone> but they're the biggest selling compuer company in the world!
<in4mer> haha
<H8reD> hello children
<sessions> hey
*** oghost has changed the topic for #Unix to: <cstone> you are all using packard bells, aren't you?
[10:16] mendel    [felix@B52-43.DAS.McGill.CA] has joined #unix
<Evil_Ed> i dont see any script? what did i miss?
<oghost> I'm just lovin this tonight
[10:16] sfh       [~znailz@DEFIANT.BFI.COM] has joined #unix
<cstone> haha
<mendel> heewo
<tcsetattr> this computer here was expensive enough that I believe it should last me at _least_ a decade
<Evil_Ed> never mind FUCKING SNOOZE SCROLLED IT OFF THE SCREEN
<in4mer> *** jennr- has been kicked off channel #unix by Snooze (bounce)
<in4mer> *** jennr- (Jenn@prozac.netdesign.net) has entered channel #unix
<in4mer> *** jennr- has been kicked off channel #unix by Snooze (bounce)
<oghost> HAHAHA
<oghost> pacman
<in4mer> baKUNG
<Evil_Ed> what did i miss? aside from bounce, which is easily fixed?
<tcsetattr> and it will
<Evil_Ed> thats not script, thats client
<oghost> that's the most eggregious violation of moore's law i've ever seen
<Evil_Ed>  /set autorejoin 0 
<Evil_Ed> or somethign like that
<in4mer> OH SO NOW IT'S OKAY?!?%!?#
<ghoti> tcs, you just got WHAT?  A new OS?  If you buy a new computer, do you prefer to run an *old* OS on it?
<powldo> hey fuck
[10:17] in4mer    Kicked off #unix by Evil_Ed [like YOU'RE bounce-free.]
<powldo> hey
<sigint> pacman: don't you get it? you're not replacing the stupid machine, you're just expanding it's capabilities
[10:17] in4mer    [in4mer@frogstar-b.quote.net] has joined #unix
[10:17] in4mer    Kicked off #unix by Evil_Ed [you didnt used to be, this i recall]
<powldo> shut comon
[10:17] in4mer    [in4mer@frogstar-b.quote.net] has joined #unix
<powldo> damn lag
[10:17] Evil_Ed   Sets mode: +o in4mer
<in4mer> uhm
<Evil_Ed> :)
[10:17] sessions  has left #unix [sessions@solar.sky.net]
<sigint> pacman: i have an ss20 that i plan to run until it dissentigrates
[10:17] MR_USA    [581@kaiwan009.kaiwan.com] has joined #unix
<terrapinn> my god, what is up with everyone tonight? 
<terrapinn> :)
* in4mer sighs
<sigint> but that doesn't mean i won't add on to it when i need to
<Evil_Ed> i DISTINCTLY remember bouncing you for a while, in4 :)
<oghost> man
<oghost> pacman
<in4mer> EE: i think you need to change your rag :+P
<tcsetattr> sig, when's the last time you upgraded your dishwasher because the old one wasn't doing its job any more?
<oghost> do people actually pay you to admin things?
[10:18] SignOff: dyejob    [Ping timeout]
* ghoti sighs
<oghost> what do you do?
<in4mer> ee: maybe you should get some geritol that was years ago
<oghost> you are like the admin from hell
[10:18] sfh       has left #unix [~znailz@DEFIANT.BFI.COM]
<MR_USA> UNIX <--- Will it last beyond year 2010? OR will all be NT/JAVA?
<powldo> fuck i am out 
<Evil_Ed> not years :P
[10:18] powldo    has left #unix [~powldo@port54.ath2.tc.hol.gr]
[10:18] MR_USA    Kicked off #unix by cstone [not this tonight, please]
<tcsetattr> no, og, I'm a normal person :-P
[10:18] powldo    [~powldo@port54.ath2.tc.hol.gr] has joined #unix
<sigint> tcs; UH, if the washer was eating my dishes and saying (100% full) every day, i would *EXPAND* it as necessary
[10:18] MR_USA    [581@kaiwan009.kaiwan.com] has joined #unix
<MR_USA> GEE, what's wrong with this topic?
<ghoti> powl's back.
<powldo> MR_USA: unix will last mother fucker
<oghost> tell me what you do?
*** Topic for #Unix: <cstone> you are all using packard bells, aren't you?
*** Topic set by oghost at Feb 12 22:16 (2 minutes 24 seconds ago)
<tcsetattr> sig, you miss the point.
<Evil_Ed> hm
<in4mer> ee: actually it was years.  i just happened to be bouncy a few months ago cuz i had to restore my scripts from tape
<tcsetattr> my computer is working just fine.
<powldo> MR_USA: unices owns the planet
[10:19] MR_USA    Kicked off #unix by oghost [ shut up ]
<in4mer> ee: and that tape happened to be about 2.5 years old
<Evil_Ed> in4, exactly
<Evil_Ed> :P
[10:19] MR_USA    [581@kaiwan009.kaiwan.com] has joined #unix
<MR_USA> powldo, why call me that? I AM a unix internals guy.
<in4mer> ee: all problems which i dully fixed when asked to
<in4mer> asshead
<tcsetattr> if I wasn't using it to its full capacity, I'd be wasting it...
<MR_USA> Am up to an intellectual discussion.
<in4mer> :+P!
<sigint> no, you miss the point.  you had your hard drive exceed 100% in just one day, that means you've outgrown it.  don't you buy new clothes when the old ones don't fit anymore?
<MR_USA> Am up to an intellectual discussion. U GUYS ARE FUCKING KIDS
<MR_USA> Am up to an intellectual discussion. U GUYS ARE FUCKING KIDS
<MR_USA> Am up to an intellectual discussion. U GUYS ARE FUCKING KIDS
<MR_USA> Am up to an intellectual discussion. U GUYS ARE FUCKING KIDS
<MR_USA> Am up to an intellectual discussion. U GUYS ARE FUCKING KIDS
<MR_USA> Am up to an intellectual discussion. U GUYS ARE FUCKING KIDS
<MR_USA> Am up to an intellectual discussion. U GUYS ARE FUCKING KIDS
[10:19] MR_USA    Kicked off #unix by tcsetattr [Out, damned spot]
[10:19] Dossy     Sets mode: +m
[10:19] tcsetattr Sets mode: +b *!*581@*.kaiwan.com
<oghost> hurm
<tcsetattr> no, I haven't "outgrown" it
[10:19] Dossy     Sets mode: -m
* Dossy yawns
<mendel> 'there'.
<tcsetattr> do you only fill the dishwasher up to 10% and then run it?
<powldo> don't ban him
<mendel> no irony there..
<sigint> no, you monkey wad
<powldo> don't ban him
[10:20] powldo    Kicked off #unix by tcsetattr [you too]
[10:20] tcsetattr Sets mode: +b *!*powldo@*.hol.gr
<mendel> exceed 100%?
<mendel> neat, i want one of those drives
<sigint> but when i fill it up to 100% on a regular basis, i expand it
<in4mer> pacman: actually your argument does bear merit.  but not for your side.  whens the last time you saw a last-generation dishwasher get all the dishes clean?
* ghoti chuckles
<sigint> mendel: the filesystem, twink
<Evil_Ed> hm
<in4mer> pacman: when's the last time you had to "clean the dishes" before using said dishwasher?
<Evil_Ed> where the heck in the mga.mon can i change the refresh rates
* pbug laughs.
<sigint> mendel: most sane filesystems reserve 5-10% for the superuser
<mendel> oh
<mendel> not 100% of disk, 100% of filesystem :)
<cstone> mouse, did you change the modco pw or something?
<mouse> ya
<pbug> night all
<mouse> heh
* pbug &
<mouse> i can /innewpass
<tcsetattr> I don't know what you're getting at
<in4mer> DAMMIT MY DISHWASHER LET MY LUSERS USE ALL 100%
<ghoti> not even 100% of the filesystem.  Merely 100% of the part of the filesystem available to non-root.
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<mouse> your dishwasher?
[10:21] NetSplit: Rhiannon_ [irc.ced.chalmers.se - irc.ec-lille.fr]
[10:21] NetSplit: Vonne     [irc.ced.chalmers.se - irc.ec-lille.fr]
<cstone> oh, mouse
<mendel> ah, yes, that
<mouse> cstone: one more thing
<cstone> when there was only one person on line
<tcsetattr> when's the last time you had to buy 2 dishwashers in the course of 5 years just because you "outgrew" one?
<bZ> this is pissing me off
<bZ> Argh
<mouse> mmhm?
* ghoti hands in4 a new dishwasher
<cstone> there was a "Last Call" line in /s
<Snooze> someone re op me
<mouse> i know
<sigint> NO YOU MONKEY
<sigint> listen
<cstone> ok
<in4mer> pacman: whens the last time your plates got 8x bigger?
<bZ> hmmm
<in4mer> dumbass
<mouse> dason my todo list but i have to implement "Fullness state" first
<zyne> "Touch my monkey."
<tcsetattr> I simply state that the useful lifetime of a machine costing over $2000 _must_ be more than 5 years
<in4mer> dishes are programs, right?
* ghoti touches zyne's monkey
<in4mer> they HOLD DISHES
<tcsetattr> I aim for 10
<in4mer> harddrives are DISHWASHERS
<in4mer> programs are DISHES
<in4mer> programs GET BIG
<tcsetattr> uh, I don't know
<in4mer> plates DO NOT
<bZ> dishwashers are meant for the junk heap
[10:22] AjnaB     Sets mode: +o Snooze
<bZ> ;p
<tcsetattr> I am not trying to make a point-by-poiny analogy between dishes and computers :)
<in4mer> want to bet?
[10:22] Shep      [jeeb@msn.globaldialog.com] has joined #unix
<mendel> :)
<bZ> how big is one? 500mb ?
<tcsetattr> I am just saying, I treat my computer like any OTHER appliance. I expect it to last.
<ghoti> tcs, what are the little chunks of gristle after you finish the turkey?
<sigint> pacman: to say "unless you have your hard drive at 100% all the time, you're not making use of it" is just out and out rediculous
<ghoti> named pipes?
<in4mer> pacman: when's the last time you upgraded your dishes to their new size?
<tcsetattr> reaching 100% is undesirable of course
<in4mer> pacman: you are ignoring the relevancy of what oghost said.  why don't you run the OS of 3.5 years ago?
<tcsetattr> but 95% is comfortable... means you got lots of cool stuffz
<cstone> oh, the "000 calls/000 today" meter isn't changing
<Shep> does anyone have a copy of gcc for BSD/OS 2.3 on Intel?
<in4mer> pacman: noooo, the OS of today has to fit on the computer of yesterday.
<tcsetattr> because getting a new OS does not cost me money
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<ghoti> Ah.  Little chunks of gristle are the unknown character devices that appear after a particularly bad crash.
<in4mer> ghoti: lol
<Snooze> pacman don't upgrade anything from 3.5 years ago, no hardware or software upgrades and you'll be fine
<ghoti> Anything that's not mode 100xxx.
<mendel> Ugh, my father is a luser.
<cstone> let's all run NT 5.0 beta on our packard bells!
<mendel> From: Tom Lafferty <tommy@reach.net>
<mendel> Subject: messages
<in4mer> cstone: with 8mb of RAM
<mendel> Hi again
<mendel> That message you sent me..........
<mendel>  Once I read it , it vanished >>>>>>> POOF!
<mendel> WHY???????
<mendel> Love your Dad ( tom )
<tcsetattr> yeah, in4... I believe all current programs should target the average computer from several years ago... you got a problem with that?
<cstone> POOF!
<Snooze> Linux 2.0.33 (londo.cqc.com) (ttyp0)
<Snooze> Welcome to Linux 2.0.33.
<oghost> hey
<oghost> pacman
<oghost> you suck at risk
<Snooze> you upgraded your kernel
* ghoti sighs and heads off to bed
<tcsetattr> haha
<tcsetattr> you suck :-P
<oghost> =P
* ghoti doesn't suck.
<oghost> "wash out lackey"
<oghost> oops
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[10:25] Rhiannon_ [rage@rhiannon.cyberwitch.org] has joined #unix
*** NetHack: +oo Vonne Rhiannon_ by irc.ec-lille.fr
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[10:25] SignOff: pbug      [Connection reset by peer]
<Shep> anyone here run BSD/OS?
<ghoti> shep, not for years
<in4mer> shep: yes, we've all been to prison and experienced "MAN LUB" too
<in4mer> shep: so i guess that's the same thing eh?
* ghoti remembers the excitement when 2.0 was released
<ghoti> Man, that was a party.
<tcsetattr> I don't believe in throwing more money at my expensive new computer. I do believe in making efficient use of all available resources. For these beliefs I am criticized
[10:27] SignOff: Shep      [I never said I _liked_ BSD/OS]
<tcsetattr> very sad.
[10:27] Luyer     [luyer@typhaon.ucs.uwa.edu.au] has joined #unix
<ghoti> tcs, Okay, you can keep your computer.  I'll take the money.
<tcsetattr> uh, no :)
<tcsetattr> my money stays with me, that's the point
<ghoti> Since new hardware comes out almost as often as new software, I don't have any more problem upgrading my hardware as I have upgrading my software.
<sigint> filling up your hard drive tells me that you made a poor investment in the first place, pacman
<tcsetattr> new hardware costs money
<tcsetattr> new software doesn't
<tcsetattr> you don't want to hear my views on proprietary software (you really don't, nobody does)
<ghoti> The money part is incidental.  I don't pay for hardware.  The company that asks me to prostitute my brain pays for the hardware.
<mendel> tc: you're right :)
<mendel> we don't :)
* mendel ducks
<Snooze> no mendel 
* ghoti quacks
<tcsetattr> money is not "incidental" to most people, ghoti
<Snooze> nobody wants to hear pacman's bitchin'
[10:29] SignOff: Luyer     [work...]
<tcsetattr> I am not a spoiled rich brat like the rest of ya
<sigint> tcs: hahaha
<ghoti> tcs, then get a cushier job.  :-)
<Snooze> ghoti ya, pacman is a college drop out who still lives with his folks
<sigint> tcs: you probably have never met, and never will meet more than 10% of the people here right now
<Snooze> opps did i say that out loud
<sigint> the fact that you just blindly labeled everyone here is both insulting and childish.
<tcsetattr> if you can take $2000, spend it on a _computer_ of all frivolous things... and then throw it out after a short time, you ARE a spoiled rich brat.
<Snooze> hrm
*** Idcmp     is now known as _It_
<tcsetattr> ordinary people cannot afford to do that.
*** _It_      is now known as Idcmp
<Snooze> has anyone here met pacman? 
<cstone> who spends $2000 on a computer?
<sigint> tcs; YOU ARE NOT THROWING OUT THE FUQING COMPUTER
<sigint> tcs: expanding the capacity is not the same as throwing it out
<tcsetattr> oh, you can keep it and spend $400/year upgrading it, that's just as bad
[10:31] tcsetattr Kicked off #unix by Snooze [retard, just upgrade the frigging drive, a new ide 5 gig is about $400]
<sigint> gee, a little more than $1/day
[10:31] tcsetattr [pacman@londo.cqc.com] has joined #unix
<tcsetattr> heh
<oghost> pacman
<sigint> how expensive, $1/day
<sigint> come on
[10:31] Figz      Sets mode: +o tcsetattr
<oghost> when did you stop making money?
<oghost> that you figured you had to be all jewish grandparent about upgrading hardware.
<tcsetattr> I am not here to complain about hardware prices... I was trying to complain about not having a decent Bourne shell but I got distracted
<oghost> hehe
* ep is installing acroread for dos ;)
<mendel> hm.
[10:32] ep        Sets mode: +o mendel
* mendel has to make up a CV for a helpdesk.
[10:32] forcer    has left #unix [frt@ts009d32.det-mi.concentric.net]
<ep> cv?
<tcsetattr> it's very simple. I spent $2200 on a machine to get the best one that was available at the time, and the intent was that I would not have to spend any more money on it for a long time.
<tcsetattr> and it's working out fine, except that I tend to get in arguments about it :)
<sigint> tcs: you were mistaken, then
<oghost> it's your bassackwards idea of 'long time' we take issue with
<tcsetattr> oh
<oghost> 2 years is a long time
<Evil_Ed> is this the machine that came with the pink cable?
<tcsetattr> let me see if I can explain "long time" then
<sigint> tcs: if you wanted to invest in a machine that will suit your needs for the next 5 years or so, i would have spent $3k or so
<tcsetattr> next to my computer is a TV.
<oghost> and has been since the inception of the microprocessor industry
<tcsetattr> TV cost maybe $250
<oghost> and you damn well shoulda known that.
<sigint> but, i don't have that type of money to invest
<tcsetattr> and it's been here like 8 years
<tcsetattr> $250 == 8 years.
<tcsetattr> see where I'm going?
<oghost> or you shouldn't have gotten into this industry in the first place.
<tcsetattr> I have a bag of potato chips here
<tcsetattr> about $2
<tcsetattr> been about 5 days.
<tcsetattr> there is a relationship there
<sigint> tcs: you have invested $2200 in a machine that may last you 4 years at most
<tcsetattr> $2000 computer == better damn well last at least 5 years
<oghost> i spent close to 5 grand on this machine
<Evil_Ed> sig, not totally, depends on what its used for
<oghost> it's a pentium 60
<oghost> bought it when pentiums were BRAND new.
<tcsetattr> og, I am not _in_ "this industry"
<oghost> and like, i still use it
<tcsetattr> I am merely a consumer :)
<oghost> pacman, what industry ARE you in?
<Evil_Ed> if you are going to game on it, it's worthless 4 months after you buy it unless you upgrade somponents
<sigint> ed: his hard drive is filled to 100%
<oghost> I've been trying to determine this
<tcsetattr> I'm not in any industry
<sigint> ed: exactly
<oghost> and you've been excessively obtuse
<tcsetattr> I have no satisfactory answer :)
<oghost> WHAT DO YOU DO?
<sigint> pacman is a gnu programmer who works for nothing
* sigint sighs
<oghost> no
<sigint> not this again
<tcsetattr> I come to #unix and bitch a lot...
<oghost> i'd know him
<Evil_Ed> if you're just going to code on it and dick around, a p60 will be find as long as you dont expect blistering speed
<sigint> ed: exactly
<oghost> of course
<oghost> which is why i'm still on it
<oghost> and happy as a clam
<cstone> tcsetattr is rms in disguise
<ghoti> tcs, I have a coffee mug that's been around for about 5 years.  I paid $2 for it.
* cstone runs
<oghost> because fbsd 2.2.5 
<oghost> runs like the wind
<oghost> no
<oghost> pacman doesn't argue like rms
<oghost> rms may have some twisted ideas
<oghost> but he's not entirely illogical.
<sigint> i think rms would consider pacman to be a socialist
<tcsetattr> hehheh
<tcsetattr> so I'm illogical too? :)
<oghost> no
<ghoti> yep!
<oghost> you're 'entirely illogical'
<oghost> like i said
<tcsetattr> you can't see the relationship between $250TV:8years::$2000computer:???
<oghost> there isn't a nugget scrap of logic in that tin can of a head you have.
<ghoti> But socialism is logical.  ;)
[10:37] undone    [undone@host17.gentext.com] has joined #unix
<undone> What's a truck?
[10:37] SignOff: LightYear [Off to tv food and cleaning... not in that order :]
[10:37] Dr_Radium Sets mode: -b %n!*@*
<oghost> TV technology doesn't improve nearly as fast as microprocessor technology
<oghost> why don't you use that head of yours
<sigint> pacman and i have similar philosophies, but unlike pacman, i invested a lot of good money into a machine to last a decade or so
<oghost> and make a reasonable comparison
<oghost> or at least
<tcsetattr> my computer is both the most expensive thing, and the one of the newest things, in this house
<cstone> i saw a damn good projection tv the other day
<oghost> A LOT more reasonable than television
<oghost> look at the automobile.
[10:37] undone    has left #unix [undone@host17.gentext.com]
<tcsetattr> it is completely illogical to say that it is what is in need of maintenance
<cstone> beats the 1985ish shit that you could barely see
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<oghost> the computer industry is far closer to the automobile industry than anything else.
<sigint> pacman
<sigint> i have a solution
* ghoti looks at an automobile
<oghost> except you don't need a license (bad thing)
<sigint> CLEAN YOUR SHIT UP
<sigint> and then
<sigint> you'll have more disk space
<tcsetattr> sig, you are solving the wrong problem
<tcsetattr> my problem is that I don't have a working Bourne shell
<sigint> you're bloody insane
<oghost> he is
<tcsetattr> and my other problem is that oghost is yelling at me, but I can ignore that one.
<oghost> but we knew this before we got in the argument
<tcsetattr> so like, get me a good shell if you want to be helpful :)
<oghost> i've known it since 5 minutes after i walked in here
<sigint>  /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s0      93151   17365    75693     19%   /
<sigint>  /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s6     970543  437416   531510     45%   /usr
<sigint>  /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s1     192799    6029   186578      3%   /var
<sigint>  /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s5     530767   12563   517674      2%   /opt
<Snooze> delete some of that porn pacman
<oghost> why pacman, i'd be more than happy to dcc you bash.
[10:39] SignOff: vi        [Dead socket]
<ghoti> Then you'll stop complaining, tcs?  ;)
<oghost> run it as 'sh'
<sigint> this is what i call efficient use of hard drive space
<oghost> and it'll work great
<oghost> in fact
<sigint> not having everything 100% full
<oghost> since you ALREADY HAVE BASH
<oghost> you schmuck
<oghost> just ln -s bash sh
<oghost> and run the stupid thing
[10:39] SignOff: Rudra     [Ping timeout]
<oghost> and boom
<tcsetattr> bash is not a bourne shell
<oghost> bourne shell
<tcsetattr> it's the bloated-again-shell
<oghost> the fuck it isn't
<oghost> see
<oghost> you say bash is bloated
<oghost> i say netscape is bloated
<tcsetattr> bourne shell does not have aliases, command line editing, and other such crap
<oghost> we are in different realms here
[10:40] er1c      [~jaeger@giga2-18-622M.core-noc-oc12.mae-east.com] has joined #unix
<oghost> i say bash is hyper-functional in extremely little space
<tcsetattr> I am looking for a REAL bourne shell, like /bin/sh from sunos 4
<oghost> have you seen what CMD.EXE under NT's size is for a quarter the functionality?
<ghoti> But if you're going to have both on your machine anyway, why not use the better one/
<ghoti> s/\/$//
<tcsetattr> ghoti, the point of /bin/sh is that it is a small shell that runs scripts fast.
<ghoti> s/$/?/
<tcsetattr> 'run scripts fast' is my ultimate goal.
<oghost> bash isn't slow dammit
<ghoti> Okay, true...
<oghost> once it loads
<oghost> it runs scripts just as fast as sh
<tcsetattr> a shell that has bloat is not going to run fast. /bin/sh gets exec'ed _constantly_, considering all the programs that use sh -c
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<tcsetattr> it needs to be hyper-small
<oghost> well
<tcsetattr> "once it loads", haha
<Evil_Ed> oh, yah,sh is blisteringly fast.
<mendel> use ash :)
* Evil_Ed rolls his eyes
<oghost> yeah, no shit
<tcsetattr> mendel, read your scrollback
<tcsetattr> I'm trying to fix an ash bug :)
<mendel> oh :)
<Evil_Ed> no matter WHAT you use, its going to be slower than a native program.
<oghost> pacman
* mendel smiles.
<oghost> there comes a time
<oghost> when you must accept that when slowness is imperceptible
<Evil_Ed> may as well write the fucking thing in java and shut up
<oghost> it isn't worth fucking with!
[10:42] jennr-    [~jenn@prozac.netdesign.net] has joined #unix
[10:42] Evil_Ed   Sets mode: +o jennr-
* Evil_Ed hugs jenn
<tcsetattr> the slowness of exec'ing a 300k binary several times per minute is not imperceptible
<jennr-> thx ee +)
* jennr- hugs ee
<zyne> Greets, Jenn.
<oghost> well what idiocy actually execs it several times per minute
<jennr-> hi zyne
[10:43] Ktulhu    [ImNot@hil-102-74.Reshall.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #unix
<oghost> and why wouldn't fixing that idiocy be much easier than finding a faster shell?
<tcsetattr> um... cron does at least once per minute
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<cstone> you crash the ddial, mouse?
<oghost> what in the fuck for?
<tcsetattr> and then there's every /system from sirc
<oghost> look
[10:43] spuug     [uug@clc51.ppp.athabascau.ca] has joined #UNIX
<tcsetattr> and there's every system() from every other program
<oghost> nobody told you to use a perl irc client
<tcsetattr> and when you run a ./configure script...
<oghost> system doesn't imply requiring a shell
<Evil_Ed> tcsetattr, if you're running a major script several times a minute, from CRON, you have no business even adminning such a station
<tcsetattr> it execs sh over and over and over
<oghost> i agree
* foop just brought up his sun3/110
<Evil_Ed> tcsetattr, yes, it does
<Evil_Ed> can you guess why?
<tcsetattr> it is important to me to have a /bin/sh that execs as fast as possible dammit
[10:44] SignOff: jennr-    [zzzz]
<tcsetattr> and bash is just NOT IT.
<Evil_Ed> or shall i tell you?
<oghost> why can't you accept that bash is fast -enough-
* er1c fg
<Evil_Ed> because that way IT WORKS ON EVERY PLATFORM THERE IS
* ghoti falls asleep
<tcsetattr> no, it ain't.
<ghoti> Night, all.
<Evil_Ed> speed is not an issue
<Evil_Ed> compatibility is
<oghost> it really isn't
<oghost> right
<tcsetattr> Evil_Ed: it doesn't work under ash :)
<spuug> foop: the /110 is 68030 based, isn't it?
<jennr> nite
<tcsetattr> that is what got me started on this quest.
<foop> spuug: 68020
* Evil_Ed hugs jenn
<zyne> Night, ghoti.
<Evil_Ed> tcsetattr, <tcsetattr> Evil_Ed: it doesn't work under ash :)
<tcsetattr> ash-linux-0.2 segfaults on lots of autoconf-generated configure scripts
* jennr huggles ee
<Evil_Ed> was it WRITTEN FOR ASH? no, it was written for SH/BASH
<tcsetattr> uh, ash is sh
* jennr & zzzzzzzzzz
<Evil_Ed> may as well try and run it under tcsh
<oghost> if ash were sh
<oghost> it would be sh
<oghost> not ash
<Evil_Ed> er, not on any machine ive ever been on 
<tcsetattr> ash is closer to sh than bash is
<spuug> foop: I must be thinking of the /230 and /330. :-)
<ghoti> zzzzzz
<tcsetattr> it just happens to have a couple of bugs.
<oghost> bash run as sh is damn fucking close
<foop> spuug: it seems to run X just as fast as my ipx, though
<tcsetattr> no it's not. it's at least 10 times bigger.
<oghost> since when is size a comparison of workalikeness?
<ghoti> jenn, poke Peter for me in the morning.  ;)
<oghost> listen
<oghost> what it comes down to
<tcsetattr> bash is a good sh _emulator_
<oghost> is shut the fuck up
<oghost> if you want it to work
<tcsetattr> I don't want an emulator I want a _clone_
<oghost> use bash
<spuug> oghost: since diaper-training time.
<oghost> hehehe spuug
<oghost> you tweak
<oghost> bah
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<Evil_Ed> you're screwing with the primal forces of nature, tcsetattr, and you're wondering why its not working?
<oghost> bash is a better sh than sh
<oghost> and sh
<oghost> statically linked
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<oghost> is 300k
<Evil_Ed> christ, go buy a pink cable and read about a hub
<Dr_Radium> wtf is this with "pink cable"?
<Evil_Ed> ash is not bash
<tcsetattr> bash isn't better than sh. it's a big bloated shell with emulation
<Evil_Ed> dr_radium, hit my topics page
* Bifrost just crashes his 'puter lab :)
<Evil_Ed> and read the log on it
<oghost> no
<oghost> it is not 'emulation'
<tcsetattr> ash is a real sh with a little bug
<spuug> Dr_R: the log is out there.
<mendel> what bug?
<oghost> as emulation would imply that the functions it executes are implemented in a layer above the one native to it
<Evil_Ed> let me get you the url, dr_r
<tcsetattr> when a big bloated thing pretends to be a smaller thing by disabling some of its own features, it's emulating
<sigint> pacman, my boy.  i don't know what in the world those men in black fed you, but it sure has messed up something upstairs.
<oghost> since bash actually is a full implementation of sh, PLUS other wonderful stuff
<oghost> you can't call it an emulator
<oghost> all running it as sh does
<Evil_Ed> alpha.fdu.edu/~obremski/the_amazing_and_never_to_be_forgotten_pink_cable.txt
[10:49] ZnO2      [~Intmec@mariner.concentric.net] has joined #Unix
<oghost> is turn off the extra stuff that might interfere with a script that assumes bare sh
<ZnO2> hi
<ringzero> sh is 300K static, and bash is 80K dynamic on my system.. how small can a 'sh' get?
*** ZnO2      is now known as Microsoft
<Microsoft> hi all!
<oghost> uhh
<oghost> bash is 80k dynamic?
<oghost> i don't -think- so
<ringzero> oops, 380K dynamic.. (geting late)
<Evil_Ed> 80k dynamic?
<Evil_Ed> not on this planet
<oghost> yah
<oghost> that's better
<tcsetattr> my most recent ash compile (with the word split bug) is 62716 bytes.
<tcsetattr> and I could get it smaller yet.
<sigint>  -r-xr-xr-x   3 bin      root       87012 Oct 25  1995 sh
<foop> -rwxr-xr-x   1 root     wheel     1417264 Dec 19 16:27 /usr/local/bin/bash*
<oghost> good lord
<oghost> static bash
<Evil_Ed> -r-xr-xr-x   3 bin      root       88620 Jul 16  1997 /bin/sh
<tcsetattr> my previous ash (with the more serious segfault bug) was less than 61000
<sigint> % ldd sh
<sigint>         libw.so.1 =>     /usr/lib/libw.so.1
<sigint>         libintl.so.1 =>  /usr/lib/libintl.so.1
<sigint>         libc.so.1 =>     /usr/lib/libc.so.1
<sigint>         libdl.so.1 =>    /usr/lib/libdl.so.1
<sigint> lala
<oghost> ldd: /bin/sh: not a dynamic executable
<oghost> and goddamn right
<sigint> foop: that was scary
<sigint> oghost: this actually isnt on my system
<foop> hmm, that should be static
<sigint> % ls -al /sbin/sh
<sigint> -r-xr-xr-x   2 bin      root      189364 Oct 25  1995 /sbin/sh
* tcsetattr has narrowed down the problem a bit: netbsd-1.3 sh doesn't have the bug, but _does_ have ifsbreakup()
<sigint> oghost: /sbin/sh is static, /bin/sh is dyn
<Evil_Ed> -r-xr-xr-x   2 bin      root      251712 Jul 16  1997 /sbin/sh
[10:51] Nantra    [ahh@1Cust130.tnt1.wenatchee.wa.da.uu.net] has joined #unix
<oghost> woah
<oghost> sun boy
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<oghost> stop corrupting your brain
<Evil_Ed> this is on sol 2.6
<oghost> use bsd
<sigint> haha
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<in4mer> ifsbreakup eh.  i take it somebody got it through their head that with IFS set to newline it wasn't cool to separate things in for loops with spaces :+P!#%!$%*@$%
<sigint> oghost: i use 4.1.4 at home
<oghost> eeeek
* in4mer growls
<sigint> they have 2.5 and 2.6 at work
<sigint> ;p
[10:52] AnArKi    [indranet@d060.meldas4.access.net.au] has joined #unix
<oghost> nightmares of apple-gunkies sunos 4.1.4 running emacs 17.3
<sigint> hahaha
[10:52] AnArKi    Kicked off #unix by gizmoduck [I can see this one already.]
<oghost> i put 2.6 on all our sparc's
<tcsetattr> I don't know yet what the purpose of ifsbreakup() is, but it the function that incorrectly splits the words in netbsd-current's sh
<in4mer> gizmooo
<oghost> though i'm going to put obsd on the 20 on my desk
<tcsetattr> s/it/it is/
<gizmoduck> in4more
<terrapinn> hmmm
<gizmoduck> terra
<sigint> oghst; i thought obsd/sun4m was very unstable and doesnt have a floppy driver?
<in4mer> tcsetattr: you familiar with the env variable IFS? :+P
<Microsoft> what's this?
<in4mer> that means internal field separator
<oghost> it has floppy
<tcsetattr> yes, I know what IFS is
<terrapinn> what up gizz
<oghost> the sun4c is what's more broken
<in4mer> ifsbreakup()
<sigint> oghst; you sure about that? 
<in4mer> duh^3
<sigint> hrmm
<Microsoft> how come not everybody is using windows nt?
<sigint> one sec
<tcsetattr> I just don't know the exact role being played by ifsbreakup()
<tcsetattr> there are a bunch of other ifs*() functions too
<in4mer> it sounds pretty self explanatory to me
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<tcsetattr> is it really self explanatory?
<tcsetattr> if it is so simple, why does it not exist in 1.2?
<in4mer> that's typically why you don't name function f3asbd9 :+P
<cstone> everyone needs to use NT on their packard bells
<tcsetattr> did the concept of IFS spring into place between netbsd 1.2 and 1.3? no..
<in4mer> because IT DIDN"T FUCKING WORK
<Mike_28> ne1 got experience with TAS ?
<oghost> i have yet to see a packard bell run unix
<oghost> i think the processor goes on strike
<tcsetattr> 1.2 works though :)
<in4mer> the concept of actually using the IFS variable sprung up though
[10:54] SignOff: er1c      [brb]
[10:54] Gremlin_  [heehee@pm-n1-18.napanet.net] has joined #unix
<Microsoft> hi
<tcsetattr> oh, heh... that's a possibility
[10:54] Evil_Ed   Sets mode: -o+b Microsoft *!*Intmec@*.concentric.net
[10:54] Microsoft Kicked off #unix by Evil_Ed [*Sigh*]
<tcsetattr> I don't really care why it works at this point
<tcsetattr> just as long as I can run my configure scripts with a shell whose size is less than 64k
<foop> heh
<in4mer> why, can't your c64 take it?
<oghost> pacman
<in4mer> no swap to /dev/tape eh?
<oghost> INSTALL FREEBSD YOU TWINKIE
<terrapinn> shells, pink cables, it's all the same shit
<in4mer> THE CONNECTOR POPP3D 0FF MY SH3LL
<tcsetattr> no thanks, ogg, I don't like pain
<oghost> pain?!
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<oghost> oh dear lord
<Evil_Ed> wait
<Evil_Ed> pacman runs linux?
<oghost> you're a linsux bigot
* Evil_Ed boggles
<in4mer> uh he's a netbsd freak
<oghost> no
<Evil_Ed> oh
<Evil_Ed> hes netbsd?
<tcsetattr> og, I've just had a look inside freebsd's /bin/sh
<terrapinn> heh
<tcsetattr> it ain't pretty in there :)
<tcsetattr> it's worse than the netbsd one!
<oghost> it's fast, it's complete
<tcsetattr> I'm a linux user, trying to port a BSD sh to linux
<in4mer> i coulda sworn he was just bitching about having to download all of the netbsd binary source to get sh :+P
<oghost> HE'S A LINUX USER
<in4mer> ah
<oghost> GODDAMNIT
<tcsetattr> is everyone caught up now? I've only explained it 4 times
<in4mer> LINUXX
<in4mer> GET OUT
<oghost> WHY AM I EVEN TALKING TO HIM
<in4mer> haha
* in4mer lol
<Figz> how's openbsd's?
<tcsetattr> heheh
<oghost> PACMAN YOU MAKE ME SICK
<cstone> haha
<tcsetattr> openbsd's sh is ksh.
<VIL3_5IN> [x³] [Laid to Rest] 12:56am [brb] [R/+] [P/+]
* Figz thinks pacman would almost like openbsd, if he weren't a linux type.
[10:56] Dr_Radium Sets mode: -b %n!*@*
<tcsetattr> reminds me of linux lusers who use bash as /bin/sh
<in4mer> i was a linux user.  then some old dude handed me a nickel and i got a real OS.
[10:56] Evil_Ed   Sets mode: -o+b VIL3_5IN *!*ddl@*.dallas-25.tx.dial-access.att.net
[10:56] VIL3_5IN  Kicked off #unix by Evil_Ed [yes]
<terrapinn> hahah
<tcsetattr> openbsd lusers are doing ksh now
<Figz> pacman, yea, but how well does it perform as a sh?
<tcsetattr> how would I know?
[10:57] k0rZ      [abc@ppp-25.rb3.exit109.com] has joined #unix
<sigint> OpenBSD/sparc has gone though several development cycles since it's origin,
<sigint> but the OpenBSD/sparc 2.2 release should be considered as "under active
<sigint> development" rather than a production ready release.  There are still known
<sigint> problems with the kernel and missing support for some common devices.
<sigint> not work reliably on many systems, but is provided as a convenience for
<sigint> for people installing on Sun4m systems where the other floppy installation
<sigint> method doesn't work due to lack of Sun4m floppy driver support.    
<sigint> sounds like they don't have a working floppy driver
<Figz> pacman, if openbsd could get an unencubered sh, it would
<sigint> holy monkey
<sigint> that was quite a lag
<Figz> ash sucks so terribly they had to go to ksh and emulate sh with it
<tcsetattr> openbsd could use ash, like netbsd does..
<Figz> pdksh that is
<tcsetattr> haha
<in4mer> i remember when someone at aimnet tried to install netbsd on a loaner alpha
<in4mer> that ruled
[10:57] Luyer     [luyer@typhaon.ucs.uwa.edu.au] has joined #unix
<Figz> openbsd used to use ash
<in4mer> it sent and ifconfig to the hard drive somehow
<Luyer> Be afraid: http://ryeham.ee.ryerson.ca/uClinux/
<tcsetattr> it doesn't suck! just has a minor bug in netbsd-current :)
<in4mer> totally wrong DMAs or something
<Figz> it changed about a year ago
<in4mer> the hard drive was trashed.
<in4mer> a 4 gig down the tubes.  from a shitty OS.
<in4mer> laugh
[10:58] Figz      Sets mode: +o Luyer
<sigint> oghost: like i was trying to say, i don't think openbsd 2.2/sun4m has a floppy driver yet
<Luyer> Linux/Microcontroller running on PalmPilots =)
<in4mer> y'know, linux sounds about right for a palm pilot
<in4mer> since EVERYTHING IS DYNAMIC
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* in4mer scrawls out cp /usr/lib/libc.so.new /usr/lib/libc.so and feerz.
<foop>  /usr/lib/libc.so?
<Luyer> SunOS?
<in4mer> generic example
<tcsetattr> do you have _anything_ in /lib, in4mer?
<aphzen> clear
<oghost> signal interrupt
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<oghost> you must increase your reading ability my friend
<oghost> Supported devices. This list of basically declares that any `stock' sun4c "sparcstation" machine will probably work; for sun4 machines one must be more careful.
<oghost>        Sun keyboard and mouse 
<oghost>        Floppy drives: 
<oghost>               sun4c and sun4m floppy disk drive 
<Figz> so _that's_ why linux has /lib
<in4mer> figz: hahaha
<Figz> Ok, that's clear now.
<tcsetattr> well... you ought to at least have /lib/cpp
<in4mer> EYE MADE LIBC STATIC WOOHOO
<sigint> oghost: didn't you see what i directly pasted from install.SPARC?
<tcsetattr> Figz, you should not assume that I am a typical linux user
<oghost> dude
<tcsetattr> I'm quite unique
<oghost> Supported devices. This list of basically declares that any `stock' sun4c "sparcstation" machine will probably work; for sun4 machines one must be more careful.
<oghost>        Sun keyboard and mouse 
<oghost>        Floppy drives: 
<oghost>               sun4c and sun4m floppy disk drive 
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<tcsetattr> if I was typical, I'd be using bash as /bin/sh and not questioning it
[11:00] cstone    Sets mode: +o dog3
<oghost> directly pasted from the damn 2.2 release guide
<dog3> hello every1
<sigint> oghost: it said, and i quote, "lack of sun4m floppy driver support"
<Figz> hehe
<mendel> l o dog3
<terrapinn> dog3
<oghost> you just can't INSTALL from a floppy
<spuug> hello everydog3.
<oghost> that's all
<dog3> openbsd?
<dog3> l o l o
<terrapinn> heh
<moogles> lolo, heh
<dog3> ruff ruff
<zyne> Greets, dog3.
<oghost> arf
<dog3> can a sun even boot from floppy?
<terrapinn> aoooooooo
* zyne howls at the moon.
* dog3 rolls over
<sigint> dude
<sigint> with "inst22.fs" or "upgr22.fs", to allow installing or upgrading systems
<sigint> with supported floppy disk drives (not Sun4m at this time).
* oghost rubs dog3's tummy
<sigint> directly pasted from the 2.2 guide
<sigint> for people installing on Sun4m systems where the other floppy installation
<sigint> method doesn't work due to lack of Sun4m floppy driver support.
<spuug> dog3: it's possible.
<Figz> pacman, you're just not flexible enough
<Figz> linux and the rest of *nix develops too fast to stay inflexible
<Figz> wayyy too slow to please argon tho
[11:02] Figz      Sets mode: +ooo dog3 dog3 dog3
<Figz> arf arf arf
<in4mer> tcsetattr: uh why?
<in4mer> pacman: /USR WONT MOUNT BUT DAMMIT I CAN PREPROCESS
<Figz> DOH
[11:02] pdave     [~dgriffi@ultrix6.cs.csubak.edu] has joined #unix
<sigint> oghost: someone is either on crack at openbsd.org, or they need to update the list
<Figz> serious serious netlag here
<Evil_Ed> sigf, they have an updated disk
<Evil_Ed> we sig
<tcsetattr> inflexible?
<dog3> I've never cn that
<Evil_Ed> one floppy
<sigint> ed: velly good
<oghost> i think the install.SPARC is wrong
<Evil_Ed> but its like, so alpha
<mendel> heh, #linux-ers are so cute.
<mendel> <Cent> Skuld:  do u know why menuconfig wont work......... it reports missing
<mendel> +files?
<terrapinn> jesus christ... SCROLL!
<dog3> hmm
<Evil_Ed> its supposed to boot from it
<terrapinn> chill on the cut n paste
* zyne reels from info overload...
<dog3> weird
<Evil_Ed> but if you have a working system, i'd recommend doing what i did
<in4mer> skrOOOAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLllllllllllllllllllllll... SKROOooooooooaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllll.....
<tcsetattr> heh, I keep a /lib/cpp up to date just as a bit of history
<Evil_Ed> dd a miniroot to swap and boot from that
<oghost> EE: you can boot from it, you just can't install from it
<oghost> that's what the install does
<Figz> http://www.openbsd.org/sparc.html looks pretty tidy to me
<oghost> boots, dd's a miniroot, and reboots
<oghost> yep
<tcsetattr> why do you say I'm inflexible, Figz?
<oghost> that's what i was just perusing figz
<oghost> pacman
<oghost> you might as well be titanium.
<dog3> hmm
<tcsetattr> I don't see where that comes from
<dog3> I need 2 upgrade netbsd on the pmax
<Figz> pacman, because you can't accept anything that isn't exactly to your liking
<dog3> 4thwith
<in4mer> Not Invented Here
<Figz> oghost, titanium is quite flexible but strong
<Evil_Ed> if it werent for the seemingly random freezing problem with a lot of ethernet traffic, i'd put it on my ss20
<dog3> I wonder if openbsd/pmax is better
<Figz> I'd call pacman molybdenum or something hard and brittle
<tcsetattr> uh
<Evil_Ed> as it is im considering isntalling 4.1.4 on it 
<oghost> well
<dog3> do they maintain the pmax port?
<tcsetattr> I like to be in control of my own machine
<oghost> not being a metallurgy major
<Evil_Ed> obsd/pmax is supposed to be nice, dog
<oghost> maybe steel woulda been more appropriate
<Evil_Ed> yes, they do, but i dont know how tightly
<tcsetattr> on my machine, I don't accept anything that isn't exactly the way I want it to be. You're right about that.
<in4mer> oghost: cast iron might be better.  extremely bitter^H^H^H^H^Hrittle.  cannot stand extreme heat.  unweildy.
<tcsetattr> I'm in charge here and I say sizeof(/bin/sh) <= 65536
<Figz> EE, there is currently a pmax en route to .de, for further development
<tcsetattr> no matter what it takes to get there
<spuug> May I suggest magnesium?  light yetdurable
<dog3> openbsd/sun4m flaky?
<in4mer> spuug: burns like a mofo
<sigint> pacman: i think you really just fell off the wagon
<sigint> dog3: that's what i've heard
<oghost> i have it on good authority
<tcsetattr> well, I don't care what you think, so nyah :-P
<oghost> that 2.2 sun4m support is quite usable now
<spuug> in4mer: yeah, that too.  short-fused.
<dog3> well netbsd pmax has progressed a lot since I installed
<dog3> mine doesn't even have shared libs
<Evil_Ed> tcsetattr, lemme get this right. you want a static bin to be less than 65k?
<Evil_Ed> or dynamic bin?
<oghost> see
<oghost> that's the other issue
<Evil_Ed> s/bin/shell/g
<in4mer> MUZT HAB STATIK GCC
<oghost> just cuz the damn thing is dynamically linked
<in4mer> MUZT PERTEKT STATIK
<tcsetattr> dynamic, of course
<sigint> bahahaha
* sigint rotfl
<oghost> doesn't mean you don't have to access all the dynamic code anyhow
<tcsetattr> it'd be nice if the thing would get small enough that the static one would be that small too
<oghost> so loading time isn't significantly reduced
<tcsetattr> but I don't see that happening
<Evil_Ed> you...you want to put a dynamic bin in /bin.
<in4mer> fear
<oghost> heh
<oghost> EE is catching up now
<tcsetattr> Ed, were you here 10 minutes ago?
<tcsetattr> helloo.... let me say it again
<Evil_Ed> i wasnt paying attention, i usually ignore #unix
<tcsetattr> static linking is obsolete for ALL programs except ldconfig and sln
<sigint> main(){ printf("I IS A BOURNE SHELL\n");}
<oghost> sigint
<oghost> statically linked
<sigint> oh, i forgot
<in4mer> pacman: unless you want your system to be resilient :+P
<oghost> that will still be
<oghost> > 200k
<oghost> =)
<sigint> main(){ printf("I IS A BOURNE SHELL\n";printf("%");}
<sigint> oghost
<tcsetattr> any resiliency you think you gain from compiling bloated static binaries is an illusion
<sigint> unlike our friend pacman, i do have a clue
<Evil_Ed> tcsetattr, ok, let me kill /usr, hm...some nice corruption of /lib..what else...oh, and no cdrom.
[11:07] SignOff: Trans_Am  [Broken pipe]
<in4mer> oghost: imagine it with all the c++ class libraries static compiled in *WHEE*
<oghost> oh sorry
<Evil_Ed> now, boot, and FIX, the system.
<tcsetattr> if the disk crashes, your fun little static binaries crash.
<oghost> only on NT
* sigint tosses oghost some sarcasm
<oghost> on NT
<oghost> hello world
<oghost> is >400k
<Evil_Ed> gee, cant even fsck.
<in4mer> 8MB
<oghost> compiled with gcc
<Evil_Ed> oh, darn! oh well.
<in4mer> MUZT HAB DYNAMIC FSCK
<in4mer> MUZT MUZT MUZT
<tcsetattr> Ed, I have boot disks. that is a _real_ recovery plan
*** oghost has changed the topic for #Unix to: <in4mer> MUZT HAB DYNAMIC FSCK
<Evil_Ed> can't even init, because..hey! init's dynamic!
* in4mer roflfohc
<sigint> DI-NAMIC FUQ
<tcsetattr> a static /bin is not a real recovery plan.
<oghost> pacman
<oghost> it's there so you don't HAVE to recover, dumbass
<in4mer> IM GONNA BREAK MY CHAIR PLEEEEZ STOP 
<Evil_Ed> og, exactily
<tcsetattr> if your libc is toast, your /bin/sh is likely to be toast too. you _need_ a bootable disk to recover from!
<oghost> it's there so you can just boot and fsck the stupid partition
<oghost> and be done with it
<oghost> ferchrissake
<oghost> if you don't have it
* in4mer ROFL
<oghost> you HAVE to recover from floppy
<oghost> which SUCKS
<oghost> God DAMN it
<Evil_Ed> tcsetattr, my cdrom on my sparc is broke. i have nothing to boot from should it break and i need to recover.
<oghost> why do i ARGUE with you
<Evil_Ed> now, do YOU thin ki will rush and make everythign dynamic?
<tcsetattr> because you like it
<spuug> oh, wow, fsck really means fsck tonight.
<in4mer> oghost: he's in a production linux environment, leave him alone.
<Evil_Ed> you REALLY need ot put down the heroine needle.
<oghost> hahahaha
<Evil_Ed> s/ine/in/
<oghost> AMEN EE
<tcsetattr> if my bootable floppy drive was broken, I'd get it fixed ASAP
<sigint> HAHAHA
<in4mer> PUT DOWN THE CRACK
<Evil_Ed> tcsetattr
<tcsetattr> it's important to be able to boot without your hard drive
<oghost> <tcsetattr> if my bootable floppy drive was broken, I'd get it fixed ASAP
<Evil_Ed> how many alphas do yo uknow that boot from sfloppy?
<oghost> BUT BUT
<sigint> SEND THE RESCUE FLOPPY TO THE HO'PITAL
<Evil_Ed> how many sparcs?
<sigint> hehe
<Evil_Ed> how many hp's?
<in4mer> you know why sparcs have floppy drives?
<oghost> THAT COSTS _MONEY_ PACMAN!
* Figz occasionally uses "fork", doesn't share as many chars, but is more onomatopoetic
<moogles> tftp dude
<oghost> AND YOU DON'T THROW MONEY AT YOUR MACHINES!
<moogles> net boot!@#$
<sigint> moogles: i agree with you :>
<in4mer> so you can dd stupid windows people's copyprotected software :+P
<cstone> woo, tftp
<Evil_Ed> moogles, that is if you even have a machine you can boot FROM
<sigint> netboot is fuuuun
<tcsetattr> Ed... I have only one computer. it boots from a floppy. you may insert "install media" in place of floppy if you want the rule to be more general
<moogles> so is that what the womenfolk call it today?
<in4mer> and it's 3.5 years old
<Figz> what's the etymology of "fork" as a unix syscall?
<in4mer> DYNAMIC CMOS
<moogles> "inserting the install media"?
<in4mer> PRAISE BOB
<Evil_Ed> tcsetattr, i pray  you never procreate...they'll prolly be all dynamic and still attached to their mother at 25
<oghost> AHHAHAHAHA
<tcsetattr> Figz, think "fork in the road"
<sigint> hahahhaaa
* in4mer rofl
<oghost> this is getting better and better
<Figz> oh, fairly obvious, yes
* sigint fell off the chair
[11:11] senate1   [sen@ts9-4.homenet.ohio-state.edu] has joined #unix
<oghost> i knew there was a reason i still put up with #unix
<spuug> figz: to fork= to split in two.
[11:11] SignOff: ringzero  [Leaving]
<pdave> tarring to a floppy is fun... in a boring sort of way
<moogles> oh damn
<moogles> that just scared the crap out of me
<moogles> I'm on #unix?
<oghost> heh moog
<oghost> sorry
<moogles> I seriously thought this was #hack for a solid 5 minutes
<cstone> haha
<oghost> i musta tripped you out
<oghost> hehehe
<cstone> HAHAH
[11:11] Figz      Sets mode: +o spuug
<oghost> dude
<spuug> hey moog.
<in4mer> haha
<oghost> #hack is never this funny
*** cstone has changed the topic for #Unix to: <moogles> I seriously thought this was #hack for a solid 5 minutes
<oghost> unless I'm talking
<moogles> oh, that was bad
<pdave> moogles: You mean #hack of many many years ago
<Figz> moogle, no bold colons here
<moogles> pdave: exactly.
<spuug> ta figzzie.
<moogles> pdave: but many people are on both, so...
<Figz> only real difference
<moogles> easy mistake to make
<pdave> moogles: I can't stand #hack
<oghost> oh yeah
<oghost> #unix is so much better.
<oghost> well
<oghost> it is
<oghost> but only because it isn't taken over ever 12.2 minutes
<Figz> hack has some truly infantile behaviour from genuine infantiles, #unix has infantile behaviour from people that should know better
<pdave> let's go harass the wintel weenies in #windows...
<oghost> HAHAHAHA
<in4mer> oh crap i'm dying..
<oghost> I HURT
<oghost> STOP
<Evil_Ed> hm
<moogles> Actually, it depends on what era's #hack you're speaking of, Figz
* sigint is laffing so hard he's crying
<in4mer> PLEEZ STOP YOU'RE KEELINK MEEE
<sigint> hahaha
<Figz> moogles, true
<moogles> #hack used to have some quite interesting people on it, far more than it does nowadays
<tcsetattr> hmmm.
<Evil_Ed> what were the things you wanted static, tcs?
<Figz> irc starts at around 18months ago for me..
<cstone> yeah, #hack was better 3+ years ago
<Evil_Ed> ldconfig and what else?
<moogles> IRC starts about 5-6 years ago for me. Thnks were nice then :/
<oghost> +hack was better
<oghost> #hack always sucked
<in4mer> oh crap, ld is dynamic
<in4mer> giggle
<tcsetattr> "ifslastp" is not NULL when it should be
<oghost> I'm just addicted to it sucking
<sigint> moogles: surely you're kidding!
<tcsetattr> ldconfig and sln
<tcsetattr> sln!
<sigint> moogles: remember the turmoil on ANet?
<Evil_Ed> sln?
<tcsetattr> sln is how you fix things without going to the boot disk
<Figz> I muddled around learning gopher and stuff for a year before discovering irc :)
<moogles> Why would I be kidding?
<Evil_Ed> what about init?
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<tcsetattr> it's the first phase
<pdave> ohhh...  gopher!
<in4mer> ee: who needs symbols :+P
<sigint> moogles: eris wasnt called "anarchy" for nothing!
[11:14] t0c       [t0c@207-172-68-55.s55.as13.nrf.erols.com] has joined #unix
<mendel> eris was called 'eris'
* pdave wonders what Microsoft Gopher would have been like.
<Evil_Ed> # ldd init
<Evil_Ed>         libdl.so.1 =>    /etc/lib/libdl.so.1
<moogles> sigint: for the first while I was on IRC it was only #trax and #coders for me, so I don't remember all the true 'history'
<tcsetattr> init? tell me how a statically-linked init is going to help
<sigint> mendel
<Evil_Ed> at least the lib is in /etc
<mendel> anarchy is called 'anarchy' :)
<sigint> mendel: don't speak of what you don't know ;p
<in4mer> ee: hehe
[11:14] SignOff: senate1   [Leaving]
* mendel looks at sigint
<mendel> enlighten me. :)
<sigint> mendel; eris was the primary leaf for Anet
<Evil_Ed> how will it help?
<mendel> oh, d'oh
<sigint> mendel: anet == anarchy network
<mendel> right
<in4mer> pacman: you should put /etc on a different partition than / so that all of your stuff will be safe.
* mendel reparses 'called'
<oghost> hehehe
<sigint> eris.berzerkeley.edu
<Evil_Ed> you'rte seriously wondering..how a static init...will help.
<spuug> moogles: you're still a part of that history.
* Evil_Ed shakes his head
<tcsetattr> yes.
<Figz> eww, talk not of /usr/etc
<tcsetattr> init by itself is worthless.
<Figz> that is evil
<oghost> hmmm
<oghost> pacman
<oghost> you have proceeded from heroin junky, to crack monkey
<sigint> hahahaha 
<tcsetattr> in order for init to be useful, you also have to hope /etc/rc isn't corrupted
*** Evil_Ed has changed the topic for #Unix to: <tcsetattr> init by itself is worthless.
<in4mer> pacman: well yeah if all you're fucking binaries are dynamic!#%!@$%(*
<tcsetattr> and you need /bin/sh
<Evil_Ed> yep, worthless
<tcsetattr> and other stuff
<moogles> spuug: probably only the guinness book of world records "only idiot bored enough to put 1160 bans on one channel" part of the history, but... ;)_
*** sigint has changed the topic for #Unix to: Welcome to our world: <oghost> you have proceeded from heroin junky, to crack mo
<Evil_Ed> ill jsut run command.com and fix it all! who needs init?
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<tcsetattr> it all adds up to too much stuff
<tcsetattr> so I shove it off on the boot disk
<in4mer> UPGRADE
<Recky> Hello..
<oghost> yeah
<in4mer> GET A ZIP DRIVE AND PUT ALL YOUR DYNAMIC BINARIES ON THERE
<sigint> hahaha
<in4mer> hahhah
<Evil_Ed> ROFL
<oghost> so when your 8" floppies get bad sectors, WHADDAYA DO?!
<in4mer> PUT THE ZIP DRIVERS ON IT TOO
<sigint> bahahaha
* sigint fripping loses it
<cstone> dos is the way, the os fits on a 1.44 disk!
* in4mer rofl
<sigint> cstone: QNX!
<moogles> dos is the way, the os fits on a 360k disk!
<sigint> NO WAIT, YOU HAVE TO PAY MONEY FOR IT
<mendel> mm, nana
<spuug> moogles: 1160 is a lot... I thought there was some kind of limit?  
<oghost> NO SOURCE
<oghost> NO SOURCE
<oghost> NO SOURCE
<in4mer> hwahahah
<Recky> I have a Lexmark Laser printer, with 3 trays.. Running SCO v5, is it possible to create a queue for each tray?
<tcsetattr> I always have at least 2 boot disks, and if they both went bad at the same time I guess I'd... cry or something.
<moogles> spuug: you know how bans merge when a server splits and rejoins?
<in4mer> lrwxrwxrwx   1 root     other          8 Feb 12 23:16 /dev/zip -> /dev/zip
<cstone> moogle: i'm talking os+neat util binaries :)
<moogles> spuug: the limit is 20. I had 1160.
<oghost> HAHAHAHA
<oghost> oh shit
<tcsetattr> actually, I'd go get a generic boot disk from someone else
<oghost> i'm gonna eject my chinese food
<spuug> oghost: I ran a sector editor to patch around my 8" floppy's bad sectors.  ;-)
<tcsetattr> they are easy enough to find
<in4mer> wahhaha
<sigint> hahahhhahah
<sigint> wahaha
* sigint rotfl
<Figz> pacman, how did you set up your original system?
<Evil_Ed> my god
<Evil_Ed> IVE FIGURED IT OUT!
<in4mer> I BROKE MY CHAIR
<in4mer> wahahaha
<sigint> hahahha
<pdave> EE: it's full of stars!
<tcsetattr> Figz, there's a long story there...
<Evil_Ed> TCSETATTR IS REALLY DOWNTOWN IN DISGUISE!
* sigint fell out of the chair again
<oghost> HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
[11:18] Almondo   [dan@albert.MyNet.org] has joined #unix
<oghost> FUCK
<oghost> STOP
<oghost> AHH
<oghost> AHH
<sigint> hahahahahhaha
[11:18] cstone    Sets mode: +o Almondo
<Almondo> hiyas
<Figz> wi tcsetattr
<tcsetattr> first this was a DOS box... it just came that way, I didn't put it there.
<in4mer> hahaha
* sigint is fscking crying
<sigint> hahahahhahah
* oghost watches a fried shimp arc gracefully over the monitor
* in4mer can't BREATHE
<tcsetattr> I made my first non-DOS boot floppies with rawrite.exe
<sigint> in4mer: me too!
<tcsetattr> ok, maybe the story isn't so long.
<in4mer> owww owww
* sigint can type though!
<Figz> pacman, sounds like me
<Evil_Ed> jesus chriost
<Evil_Ed> im crying
<pdave> what the hell happened?  
<in4mer> i just tried to suck my nose into my windpipe
<sigint> ed; same here 
<oghost> aoehaoehaoheoaheaoheoahe
<Evil_Ed> my glasses look like i went through a car wash
<sigint> hahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
<in4mer> ahwhahah
<oghost> ohh 
<oghost> pain
<oghost> pain
<Figz> except I made my first set with rawrite, and my second set with dd in linux (dynamic dd)
<Figz> then I installed openbsd
<oghost> where's my asthma inhaler
<Recky> Anyone good with handling printers under Unix?
<in4mer> PLEASE PELAES MAKE IT STOP PELAWSE
<terrapinn> hmmm
<tcsetattr> why did you ask that question, Figz?
<tcsetattr> you got a point?
<Figz> recky, it's really easy, just grab it by the cable, and show it who's boss
<oghost> whooooo
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<spuug> Recky: lpd is pretty good for that.
[11:20] cstone    Sets mode: +o AgentX86
<mendel> Ugh.
<Figz> pacman, you were just saying you don't know what you'd do if you lost your floppies at the same time
<Almondo> give it a good swing, and bingo, output
<AgentX86> Thanks cstone.
<Recky> Figz: Unfortunately, in the adult world, it doesn't work like that. :)
<cstone> you're welcome
<mendel> This helpline job needs VMS.
<Figz> the virgin install is a similar issue
<in4mer> oh my god
<oghost> man
<in4mer> i'm so sore
<oghost> i haven't laughed this hard
<in4mer> snicker
<oghost> since i saw bill cosby on lsd
<in4mer> me either hahaha
<pdave> oghost: when was that?
<oghost> many moons ago
<sigint> i dont think ive ever laughed this hard
<in4mer> You tAKe the PUDDing POPZ, andjooputtem ON YER HEAD.
<sigint> oghost: you mean on morphine, in the dentists office?
<oghost> no
<oghost> *I* was on LSD
<oghost> HE was on TV
<sigint> HAHAHA
<in4mer> haha
<tcsetattr> no, I was _joking_, Figz.
<pdave> cobsy on LSD still sounds pretty funny.
<tcsetattr> if I lost both my floppies at the same time, I'd MAKE MORE!
<Figz> pacman, I wasn't suggesting you did
<oghost> and he wasn't on morphine
<in4mer> i should try that
<in4mer> that sounds like a blast
<oghost> he was on novocain
<tcsetattr> I can do that you know
<oghost> dude
<oghost> you have no idea
<in4mer> DD IS DYNAMIC
<oghost> I couldn't finish the tape
<in4mer> WHAT R U GOING 2 DO?!@?!#%
<in4mer> awhahahaha
<sigint> hahahahaha
<Figz> anyway, I am going to go play until my crooked arrow finds the wumpus
<spuug> Cosby is a comedian, after all.
<mouse> yah i broke it, cstone
<sigint> cat vmunix > /dev/fd0!
<tcsetattr> in4mer, I'm going to introduce a concept you may be unfamiliar with
<tcsetattr> FRIENDS.
<cstone> heh
<oghost> DUDE
<in4mer> LILO
<oghost> CAT IS DYNAMIC
<pdave> in4mer: what OS?
<sigint> hahaha
<in4mer> hahahaha
<sigint> echo < /vmunix > /dev/fd0!
<in4mer> b|n>k
<Evil_Ed> hahaha
<Evil_Ed> but wait!
<oghost> HOW CAN YOU ECHO FROM A DYNAMIC SHELL?
<sigint> RIGHT!
<Evil_Ed> THE SHELL'S DYNAMIC!
<sigint> hahaha
<in4mer> AAAAAAHHHH
<tcsetattr> I know other people who could make boot disks for me
<in4mer> hahaha
<oghost> <tcsetattr> I know other people who could make boot disks for me
<in4mer> YOUR CAR IGNIGTION IS DYNAMIC
<oghost> ALL THAT FOR A COUPLE HUNDRED K OF SAVED SPACE
<tcsetattr> og
<in4mer> YOUR GAS TANK WAS DYNAMICALLY LINKED
<t0c> [RUG(RUGirl2000@170-108-9.ipt.aol.com)] hey what do they call those moving sex pics?
<sigint> hahahaha
<tcsetattr> what do you suppose the odds are that I will lose both my boot disk and my hard drive all at the same time?
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<Figz> how do I shoot my arrow in wumpus?
<in4mer> ohhhh craaaaap i hurt
* sigint suspends a magnet over tcs's computer
<Figz> s and room number?
<spuug> pacman: 50-50.
<in4mer> pacman: you should have given up while you were ahead :+)
<tcsetattr> you may like living in a world without friends
<oghost> about the same as you gaining a sense of practicality in the next 20 minutes
* in4mer gives pacman a cookie
<Figz> I think I have this wumpus cornered
<tcsetattr> but I don't
<mouse> oh
<mouse> LAME
<mouse> its unfortunatly a lame error, cstone
<pdave> figz: "s <room>"
<in4mer> pacman: but you lost it with the dishwasher analogy wahaha
* in4mer rofl again
<in4mer> BEEG DEESHIZ
<tcsetattr> I do not mind knowing that there is a 1 in a billion chance that I might have to eventually rely on another human being to help me fix my computer
<oghost> pacman makes a LIVING from arguing a point from moderately reasonable to totally off-the-fucking-wall just so he doesn't have to admit fault.
<in4mer> WHAT CONNECTOR
<oghost> dude
<oghost> pacman
<Evil_Ed> at least his giant telephone connectors didnt fall off this time
<sigint> hahaha
<oghost> be a lawyer
<tcsetattr> og
<in4mer> ahahaha
<sigint> YOUR BRAIN IS DYNAMIC
<oghost> HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA
<sigint> OH GNO!
<tcsetattr> I will send you all the money in my bank accounts
<oghost> <Evil_Ed> at least his giant telephone connectors didnt fall off this time
<Evil_Ed> thank GOD he didnt ask awhat a switch was
<tcsetattr> if you can tell me why it is a bad idea
<oghost> FOUR PRONGS ARE BETTER
<oghost> MORE DURABLE
<pdave> is anyone on LSD right now... I guess at least three people are now.
<in4mer> hahah
[11:26] Khilith   [[OtwAPJx0k@oahu-663.u.aloha.net] has joined #unix
<oghost> oh god
<oghost> is anyone logging this?
<tcsetattr> to have a TRIPLE-BACKUP
<Evil_Ed> yes
<Evil_Ed> :)
<terrapinn> GOT PINKCABLE?
<in4mer> YEZ EYE AM
<sigint> hahahaaha
<oghost> PUT ME ON THAT DCC LIST
[11:26] SignOff: Vonne     [Hmmm. EPIC has another bug. Go figure...]
<tcsetattr> and then also have a FOURTH LAYER OF BACKUP
<Evil_Ed> ill post it to my page
<tcsetattr> which consists of other human beings
<sigint> I HAVE A TRIPLE CHEESEBURGER 
* AgentX86 sips his coffee
<tcsetattr> go.
<in4mer> PINK CABLE DOESNT WORK UNLESS YOU HAB DYNAMIC CONNECTORS
<sigint> but it won't save my computer!
<tcsetattr> if you can't argue this point
<tcsetattr> I suggest you shut up
<Evil_Ed> tcsetattr, when you get a real machine, you'll understand
<oghost> pacman is one of those people that sat there and tried to explain the Magic Button
<ep> open mailbox; get leaflet; read leaflet
<sigint> hahahaa
<Evil_Ed> when you have a broken cdrom and can't boot the machine and your only salvation is a static /
<sigint> "Where's the Any button?"
<oghost> NONONO
<tcsetattr> you are being quite stupid
<oghost> the MAGIC BUTTON
<in4mer> pacman, we're so through trashing you we're riding the endorphins from laughing so hard
<ep> sigint: next to the any key
<mouse> the client didnt catch my drift
<in4mer> PFM
<mouse> cstone
<in4mer> pure FUCKING MAGIC
<tcsetattr> I don't do CD-ROM :-P
<oghost> YES
<tcsetattr> I have boot floppies :)
<Figz> A horrible roar fills the cave, and you realize, with a smile, that you have slain the evil Wumpus and won the game!
<Evil_Ed> you'll be crying whern its all dynamic, / is ro, and /usr is fucked up, and fcsk is dynamic.
<Figz> You don't want to tarry for long, however, because not only is the Wumpus famous, but the stench of dead Wumpus is also quite well known, a stench plenty enough to slay the mightiest adventurer at a single whiff!!
<sigint> hahaha
<cstone> ?
<Figz> yay!!!
<oghost> sigint, you know about the magic button, don't you?
<sigint> figz: yayayay!
<ep> fiz: woot woot
* Figz killed the evil wumpus
<cstone> There are tunnels to rooms 12, 12, and 17.
<sigint> oghost: i have a magic button 
<cstone> whoops!
<ep> Figz: nooooo
<oghost> no no no
<Figz> slew even
<oghost> go to the nearest jargon file mirror
<oghost> and search for "magic button"
<sigint> aww
<sigint> i c
* cstone thinks it's time for a make build
<ep> Zork nemesis was pretty cool but still wasn't as good as the origianls ;)
<tcsetattr> Ed, I will have boot floppies, always... and I will also always have other human beings who can help me in the 1-in-a-billion case of a simultaneous failure of three independent disks
* terrapinn reads bermuda.jobs
<terrapinn> i could deal with this...
<terrapinn> too bad it's empty
<oghost> BUT PACMAN
<oghost> IF I BROKE IN 
<Evil_Ed> tcsetattr, your floppy just broke. 
<Evil_Ed> fix.
<oghost> AND URINATED ON YOUR MACHINE
[11:28] SignOff: JuliaAnne [Leaving.]
<oghost> YOUR FLOPPY DRIVE WOULD BE BROKE!
* ep ponders running a zork-bot
<tcsetattr> hah
<Evil_Ed> tcsetattr, im serious
<tcsetattr> if the floppy _drive_ breaks, then I take it to the repair shop
<Evil_Ed> the only way to boot my sparc, if not fromt he hd, would be from crom.
<Evil_Ed> er cdrom
<tcsetattr> is that a radical idea too?
<Evil_Ed> which is now broken
<sigint>      * Goddess Shoppe, The - metaphysical emporium and bookstore
<sigint>       featuring a vast array of metaphysical supplies and the largest
<sigint>        collection of bumperstickers and buttons available.
<sigint> hahahaha
<sigint> wtf is THIS
<Evil_Ed> now
<ep> like a channel that people would request a game, the bot would create a channel, invite the single player in and close it off into the original zork game
<Figz> zsh: exit 1     grep -i magic button /usr/local/info/jarg400.txt
<Evil_Ed> if my machine ever shits itself
<tcsetattr> Ed, what did sparcs boot from a couple years ago before CD-ROMs existed?
<ep> that would be cool
<in4mer> no magic button :+( v4.0.0
<ep> ;)
<oghost> huh?!@
<tcsetattr> I know that Suns predate CD's
<oghost> no way
<Evil_Ed> tcsetattr, tape
<oghost> dude
<oghost> it's in the appendix
<oghost> the hacker stories
<in4mer> oghost: way
<in4mer> mmkay
<sigint> pacman: dont tell me you have a fripping 9mm reel tape
<Figz> hmm, I know about a magic switch
<tcsetattr> cool.
<oghost> yayayaya
<Figz> but not the magic button
<oghost> magic switch maybe
<tcsetattr> no, I don't. and I don't have a Sun either
<Figz> do you want magic, or more magic?
<mendel> there's a Big Red Button and a magic switch
<oghost> right
<oghost> the switch with one lead
<pdave> ep: I was thinking of a zork-port instead.
<Figz> btw, I have the thing nearly memorized...
<oghost> that spuriously rebooted the machine
<spuug> pacman: CD's came out about 1978, sun wasn't around until about 1984.
<tcsetattr> I don't think this Sun talk is relevant anyway, since you all are apparently deriving your joy from talking to me about how I take care of _my_ machine
<in4mer> DAMMIT THE SEARCH IS BORKED
[11:31] SignOff: Recky     [Leaving]
<tcsetattr> CD's have been here since 1978?
<in4mer> ahhhhh the magic button with one wire?!?
<oghost> yeah
<oghost> that one
<tcsetattr> I would have guessed something more like .. 92
<mendel> no, that's a magic switch
<in4mer> WHY DIDN"T YOU SAY SO
<in4mer> hahaha
<tcsetattr> but anyway
<oghost> whatever
<in4mer> i remember that one :+)
<Figz> I figgure it was probably changing impedance, or else messing with the ground plane's capacitance or somesuch
<oghost> magic button
<oghost> bagic switch
<sigint> baahahahahahahahahha
<pdave> oghost: not really... the concept was... witness laserdisk videos.
<oghost> magic switch
<oghost> guh
<oghost> uhh
<oghost> pdave
* sigint rotfl
<t0c> radio-electronics ran the first article about production cd players in 1984.
<oghost> WHAT?!
<mendel> buttons are stateless
<oghost> are you fucking talking about
<oghost> <pdave> oghost: not really... the concept was... witness laserdisk videos.
<oghost> buttons STILL won't work with one lead
<pdave> oghost: oops... wrong person
<oghost> it's an electricity thing
<tcsetattr> well
<tcsetattr> you aren't giving me a straight answer
<mendel> depends how you mount the button
<t0c> oghost: the button could short the one lead to ground.
<oghost> and buttons are NOT stateless
<pdave> who was the one who said CDs have been around since 78? 
<mendel> buttons are momentary
<sigint> pdave: they have
<mendel> switches are stateful
<tcsetattr> how long has it been since computers started using CDROMs
<oghost> well
<cstone> cds were perfected since around then, not really popular
<sigint> the technology was developed in '98
<tcsetattr> that's a newfangled thing and I'll have nothing to do with it
<oghost> momentary and stateful are not mutually exclusive.
<tcsetattr> :-P
<sigint> hahaaha
<spuug> pdave: I said that.
<sigint> '78
<Evil_Ed> s/98/78/
<tcsetattr> evil devices..
<sigint> yeah, i caught myself, ed
<mendel> well, if you want the 'state' to be 'held down' or 'not held down', i suppose
<mendel> but the state is in the finger, not the button :)
<oghost> of course
<Evil_Ed> :)
<t0c> the first video laserdiscs were not optical
<Evil_Ed> think about it..when did audio cd's come out, tcs?
<pdave> t0c: if they were laser, how were they not optical?
<tcsetattr> I don't know
<sigint> actually
<tcsetattr> I don't care
<t0c> i dont know why everyone calls them 'laserdiscs' now.
<sigint> most of the first suns were either bootstrapped from tape
<tcsetattr> I'm trying to debug a shell here and you're slowing me down
<sigint> or over the net
<in4mer> i think i need some food
<t0c> remember the old RCA videodisk machines
<spuug> t0c: if not optical, what were they?  Wax?
<in4mer> i musta burned like 1000 calories laughing
<oghost> http://ftp1.sunet.se/jargon/jargon_46.html
<oghost> http://ftp1.sunet.se/jargon/jargon_46.html
<oghost> http://ftp1.sunet.se/jargon/jargon_46.html
<pdave> t0c: maybe becaus they were read with lasers.
<terrapinn> i had one of those, t0c
<t0c> they worked somehow on capacitance.
<Evil_Ed> the first suns, yes, because a cd was way too expensive
<sigint>  A year later, I told this story to yet another hacker, David Moon as I   
<sigint>    recall. He clearly doubted my sanity, or suspected me of a
<sigint>    supernatural belief in the power of this switch,
<pdave> I've heard of a videodisk that used a needle...
<sigint> ahahaha
<t0c> affordable laser diodes did not exist in 1978
<Evil_Ed> sig, the magic switch at mit? :)
<pdave> t0c: that's why they used laser tubes
<t0c> nor did small cheap precision focusing lens assemblies
<terrapinn> i had "Smokey and the Bandit" on the old RCA Laserdisc
<Evil_Ed> that was a single wire to the ground? :)
<terrapinn> it was cool
<sigint> hahahaha
<pdave> t0c: LD players weren't cheap
<oghost> uep
<Evil_Ed> which still managed to crash the machine? :)
<pdave> old ones
<oghost> single wire to ground
<t0c> pdave: i'd imagine that if they used something like a ruby tube, the machines would have been much larger
<oghost> "and the computer promptly crashed"
<mendel> ev: that's the one.
<Figz> one thing that worries me about the jargon file, is that from time to time they remove stuff to it
<t0c> i'm talking about pre-LD here
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<t0c> these things came in cartridges
<mendel> 'they' :)
<mendel> figz, `they' do?
<terrapinn> huh?
<oghost> Figz: that's why I have the info version on my hard drive.  =)
<Figz> and it's really easy to crash stuff by a small perturbation of the a ground plane
<terrapinn> oh
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<oghost> Figz
<oghost> a switch
<oghost> with one lead
<Figz> mendel, yea, notice it gets smaller on some revisions
<pdave> t0c: ruby lasers are far too powerful and don't generate a steady beam like optical discs require
<oghost> conected to a ground
<oghost> simply cannot do anything
<Figz> oghost, HEARD OF IMPEDANCE?
<oghost> sure
<mendel> figz: aside from layout?
<Evil_Ed> figz
<terrapinn> i can barely see bolded colons on this 132x50 linux text console
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<sigint> haha
<in4mer> oghost: sure it can.  the computer's board ground doesn't have to be the same as the cabinet.
<Evil_Ed> one wire, fromt he ground, to a simple toggle
<mendel> i don't know of anything he's removed.. edited perhaps
<Figz> oghost, you add more copper, you're chaning capacitance impedance and other important stuff
<oghost> umm
<Figz> and high frequency, that becomes a BIG deal
<pdave> t0c: ruby lasers are far too powerful for optical discs and aren't steady-beam
<oghost> we're talking about such a minute difference as to be imperceptible to even sensitive ohm meters.
* sigint notes that -fn 12x24 is the perfect xterm for larn/hack
<Figz> why do you think motherboards are full of rf chokes?
<Evil_Ed> no power to the switch, figz
<terrapinn> -fn 6x10
<Figz> those little curlies of copper
<in4mer> oghost: but a CPU?
<oghost> even 6" of copper running to a switch
<oghost> err 6'
<terrapinn> -bg black -fg white
<mendel> heh.
<oghost> wouldn't do SQUAT
<mendel> Recently IRC has placed unnecessary strains on the public access
<mendel> facilities connecting to Alcor and is adversely impacting other
<mendel> functions.  IRC bots pose both resource and system security problems.
<Figz> god, you guys never took any electronics in high school?
<terrapinn> thats my face
<terrapinn> fave
<spuug> Figz: I figure the wire acted like an antenna, which when switched on sent pulses to the point it was connected to.
<t0c> pdave: i don't know :) i just know that those old rca/victor videodisks weren't optical.
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<oghost> spuug: "switched on"?
<in4mer> coax
[11:38] Figz      Sets mode: +o Coax
<oghost> what does that mean
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[11:38] terrapinn Sets mode: +o Coax
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[11:38] tcsetattr Sets mode: +b *!*t0c@*.erols.com
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<Coax> in4mer!
<mendel> pulses?
<Figz> See, this is the deal.
<Coax> thanks all :)
<sigint> what the monkey piss happened here
<oghost> there was no "switched on"
<sigint> 1545 Jan  1  1970 rc2
<oghost> one wire
<oghost> WAIT
<oghost> SEE
<pdave> t0c: cartrige... I found some things about the size of an LD in a rectangular plastic case..
<sigint> fscking epoch timestamp
<oghost> HERE IT GOES
<tcsetattr> fscking bold colon lamers
<Figz> A switch like that would confuse a software engineer, but not a trained hardware person.
<oghost> YOU FUCKERS ARE TRYING TO EXPLAIN THE MAGIC SWITCH
<oghost> I KNEW IT
<oghost> I KNEW IT
<spuug> oghost: switched from one position to the other.  
<oghost> I just figured PACMAN would be the one DOING IT
<oghost> NOT YOU TWINKIES
<terrapinn> wouldn't it be cool to measure your age by the epoch timestamp?
<pdave> why do so many people use a bold colon?
<sigint> hahahahha
<Figz> think about what a switch does for a minute
<mendel> oghost :)
* pdave farts
<tcsetattr> it is a symptom of using BitchX
<in4mer> OBviously the etherwind had been ascertained to blow along the length of the copper wire, which then channeled a slight ether spike, while it lasted, into the CPU.  we ALL know CPUs are VERY ether sensitive.
<cstone> pdave: a rather annoying client has that beautiful "feature" enabled by default
<oghost> FIgz: all you're doing is adding another 1/4" of metal to the copper by flipping the switch to the side the wire is attached to
<oghost> duh
<Figz> a small copper armature shifts from a resting position to contact with a copper plate
<spuug> pdave: bitchx + nick completion.
<oghost> and you're telling me
<Figz> at that point it has changed capacitance, and the capacitance of anything it's connected to
<oghost> that's going to crash a pdp 10?
<Figz> one lead or not
<oghost> HAHAHAHAHA
<in4mer> oghost: and what of the cabinet the switch was connected to?
<oghost> CRACK MONKEY
<oghost> THAT FUNKY MONKEY
<sigint> hahaha
<sigint> hahahahah
<Figz> you guys are nuts, the story says it worked consistantly, the explanation is obvious
<spuug> oghost: which changes its resonant frequency enough to shift any standing waves that may be on it.
<in4mer> figz, how much impedance do you figure, ohhhh say a cabinet would lend to the wire?
<pdave> the magic switch effect was probably discovered by accident..
<oghost> 1994: Another explanation of this story has since been offered. Note that the switch body was metal. Suppose that the non-connected side of the switch was connected to the switch
<oghost> body (usually the body is connected to a separate earth lug, but there are exceptions). The body is connected to the computer case, which is, presumably, grounded. Now the circuit
<oghost> ground within the machine isn't necessarily at the same potential as the case ground, so flipping the switch connected the circuit ground to the case ground, causing a voltage
<oghost> drop/jump which reset the machine. This was probably discovered by someone who found out the hard way that there was a potential difference between the two, and who then wired in
<in4mer> hehe
<Figz> in4mer, enough to cause sufficient disruption to cause a missed instruction, obviously
<oghost> the switch as a joke. 
<oghost> that
<oghost> is almost certainly the explanation
<oghost> but i prefer magic
<in4mer> yeppers
<Adrian> Hrm..
<in4mer> magic sounds better
<mendel> more magic. :)
<in4mer> pure fucking magic even.
<Figz> well, that explains even better than the version I remembered
[11:42] _Cam      [~cam@unsound.oz.net] has joined #unix
<Adrian> Anyone here played with realaudio serevers at all?
<Figz> I had assumed the body of the switch was insulated, and hence not causing the ground plane of the mb to be connected to the computer's case
<in4mer> adrian: since they cant get the solaris client to work at all, do you consider their software viable?
<oghost> I still have that switch in my basement. Maybe I'm silly, but I usually keep it set on `more magic'. 
<Figz> that really would do it
<oghost> guy steele is elite
[11:43] Placain   [dmd@brwn-51.dhcp.umass.edu] has joined #unix
<oghost> in the truest sense of the word
<in4mer> hehe
<Adrian> in4mer - I don't really care about solaris right now. :)
<in4mer> pretty sure nobody else has a magic switch
<Figz> the true sence of the word is not something you want to be
<in4mer> adrian: ohhhh.  how's your NT upgrade coming?
[11:43] SignOff: foop      [Ping timeout]
* Adrian laughs.
<Snooze> how difficult can it be to make a solaris RA player? cat the frigging stream to /dev/audio
<oghost> Figz: you expect me to believe
<oghost> that someone who can't spell sense
<oghost> knows the definition of elite?
<Figz> it's like that dickhead programmer kiddie that called his network monitor "big